carreracup21

Dan, do you forsee any problem getting parts for the 3.6 that the 964 Cups are running with ?

Sorry for the hijack

JimmiLew

Thanks guys for your thoughts. You really all have me thinking now.

Key points: As Glen said, and Dan (hi dan!) states, it seems parts for the 993 Cup are getting hard to find. Sole sourcing for parts other than PMNA (who is likely to be around a while) seems scary and risky to me. Concur?

I like the rarity factor of the 993, and the hornets nest of 996's at a Club Race seems daunting. I just dont want to bleed cash to run at the front with KMR guys who have unlimited $$$ (I dont), it adds up FASTer than fast lap times! But this supposed to be for fun, right?

So far, you guys are swaying me toward a 996. What do you think of the White 2001 cup in the Classifieds?

Thanks Guys!

Premier Motorsp

What Glen said!

The water cooled engines are FAR less expensive the long run. Parts are much cheaper (and still available) and the TBO (time between overhauls) is at least 50% longer. They are also all but immune to overrevs.

Personally, if cost were no object and GTC2 and GTC3 were equally well subscribed, I'd run the 993 Cup because they are a little more fun to drive. On the other hand, the late 996 Cup is a fast race car, and the 993 isn't.

The future does not look good for air cooled engines. All those 3.8 heads eventually crack and now the high time 3.6 engines are doing it too. 3.6 heads are $1550 each (X6). 996 Cup heads are about $800 each and there are only 2.

The 'small' G50 used in all 993s (except turbos) is borderline strong enough even for 315hp. It won't last as long as the 'big' G50 does in a 996 Cup, even with 400hp.

There is no more cost effective Porsche to run than a 996 Cup.

I'd still kill for a low mileage 993 Cup though!

Chris Cervelli
Premier Motorsports

K964

Chris,
I was under the impression that 964 Cup Cars can go the longest with regards to "TBO" whereas the 996 Cup Cars require rebuilds around 40-50 hours. The 993 Cups fall somewhere in between. I have been told this by numerous sources, including experienced 996/993/964 Cup racers. What am I missing here?
Mike

Glen

The factory recommendation on the 996 Cup is 55-60 hours and is based on cars run in the Supercup series or run in IMSA or run at Daytona(read rode hard and put away wet..) even these motors we have seen the insides of and they are still in excellent shape. Turns out You should not even really be concerned unless You see leakdown above 20-25%, yes I said that 20-25% and oil usage is the best barometer of all. Again, I admit to a bias, but I got there out of experience, not guesses.

kev

If thats the car I think it is, Jim Newman who posts here as Clubrcr has driven it and knows its history and can clue you in on it. BTW, he has a very low mile 993 Cup for sale too.

There is very little logical about racing Porsches, they are expensive beasts, no matter how you look at it. Its been my experience that you should just go with what your heart tells you, what fits in your budget, and whatever your wife will let you get away with.

kev

Yes, the 996 revs higher, but i'm not sure that necessarily means that it is generating more heat as a byproduct of being more stressed. If he doesn't mind, I'm quoting Chris:

"The water cooled engine seems to be stressed quite a bit less than the air cooled big engines (3.6 or 3.8) The water cooling takes away the heat so you don't have the rapid valve guide wear and piston wear that you have with air cooled engines. Also the crankshaft and rods were redesigned for better oiling and lighter weight. The piston is much lighter. The four valve combustion chamber removes the threat of detonation. It seems that letting 996 Cup engines go 80 hours is no risk at all."

I will be rebuilding my 996 Cup motor in 30-40 hours, so we'll see if the theory holds up. When I had my 993 Cup, I budgeted about $20k for a worst case scenario of a full rebuild. With the 996 Cup I'm willing to bet I will be way below that number.

tar6day

How much is a non-PMNA 996 cup engine rebuild? Are there different levels of rebuilding? Does PCA require PMNA only rebuilds or just IMSA?

kev

Tim,

Look at the last post of this thread for an idea: https://rennlist.com/forums/showthre...40#post1933340

Thankfully, you don't need a PMNA rebuild for PCA club racing.

enthusiast

Well... as Chris C. was pointing out, one has to look at what is involved in the air cooled engine rebuild versus the water cooled engine rebuild. Some of the primary air cooled engine components have much shorter life spans than the water cooled ones. So a freshening or rebuild cost can jump dramatically when it coincides with a component reaching the end of its life (Porsche Motorsport typically specifies life by hours not by inspection).

For either engine a buyer needs to know total hours by primary component not just the engine hours since last freshening/rebuild.

MJR911

Get Jim Newman's opinion.... a straight shooter and as knowledgeable as anyone I know about factory cars.

analogmike

> The 993 Cup is a much lower revving engine. Three things kills engines: revs, heat and boost.

You don't HAVE to rev the GT3 cup motor to 8K. Actually in higher gears it makes more sense to shift at about 7400 as there is no torque above there. Except for qualifying and racing you can shift at 7K to get more hours on the engine. My engine had leakdown of 20-30% in a few cylinders and still made as much HP on the dyno as a new 05 engine, and got a record top trap speed at the SCCA runoffs.

Anyway, Jimmy Lew you need to get a 993 cup

RSRRacer

My fastest lap times were turned in my 2000 Cup shifting at 7400 RPMs with a few 7700-7800. Never rev limiter.

For what its worth...

Pete Debusmann

I don't want to hijack this thread, but I was wondering if Glen had any spare 993 cup parts. What I specifically need is a front coilover setup. My friend broke the right front strut at VIR. I had the strut fixed by Bilstein, but we need the springs. There is a small red tender spring, a large black spring from Eibach #140-60-200 and two aluminum hats. One between the two springs, and one on top of the large spring. I need these four pieces if you have them.

Thanks
Pete Debusmann

Dbltime

Pete, Have you called Genady at GT Performance? With the number of 993 cup incidents they have repaired I would be surprised if they could not assist. Worth a try and a short drive for you. www.gtperformanceinc.com