I am not saying the 996 Cups generate more heat, but an 8000 redline is very different than a 6500 redline. The mass of the rod/piston assembly pulls on the rod with every stroke, and the faster the crank turns, the higher the force. As the engine revs higher, the force on the rod increases dramtically. Maybe one of the engineers here can whip out the angular momentum forumlae to compute the exact difference.

 

Well with a lighter piston and a much stronger lighter rod(read pankle titanium) the 996 is a much much less stressed assy than the 993/964 unit even at higher rpms. The crank is also much stronger...just a few thoughts....Rods replacement interval per the manufacturer is well north of the 993 rod manufacturer. As You already know, the rods are one of the weak links in the 964/993 engine hence the many Pauter and Carillo rodded otherwise"legal" 964/993's out there right now....

 

It certainly does depend on "how much mass you are rotating"!

 

Guys,

Thanks for all the responses. There is enough info here to make your head spin! I really appreciate the collective wisdom of the group. There are several here that really know their stuff!

But I am weeding through it, and starting to make sense of it all. Although I would like a 993 (rare and more unique), they are hard to find and I am starting to lean towards a 996 for all the stated reasons. Sorry Analogman!

I'll let you know when I find a car. Thanks again for all the advice, and see you on the track sometime this year!

Jimmilew

 

993 Cup: Cooler
GT3 Cup: Better racing class

 

So I drove my 996 Cup for the first time this past weekend. Some of my thoughts on comparing it with a 993 Cup (I drive my cars at about 8/10):

I liked vs. 993
- More power!
- Would agree that there is less throttle oversteering done in turns (safer but
as fun?)
- Power steering, didn't really notice less feedback
- At +5000 rpms, the 993 would make alot of noise and rattle little crazy in the
rear. The 996 is a bit quieter and no rattling. The 996 motor makes a neat
whistling noise instead in the upper rev band.
- Much easier to get in and out of the car, cage is redesigned on driver side
and quick release steering wheel.
- Speedo under the tach is nice, but i'm not sure how accurate it is.

Didn't like vs. 993
- More power!
- Miss the lever/fork feel of the shifter vs. the new cable shifter, I think the
former is much smoother.
- Does not brake as well, more power and more weight not offset by bigger
brakes, imo, I had to back up my brake zones.
- Burns ALOT more fuel.

Have to say that the 996 is great fun to drive.

 

Brakes! Come on Kevin, these car are over-braked if anything IMO. That's why I like my early(read cheap ) brakes & I still run Pagid yellows. Spend some time with GG, you'll brake less, trust me

When do I get to see this bad boy?!!!

 

First off, thanks for the nice words Mitch..

I always get a kick out of reading what is better and cheaper to maintain. I bet if you ask someone who just "balled up" a GT3 Cup, he'd tell you that a GT3 Cup is more expensive.

Jim, I know we have spoken about this and I agree with Glen about the parts on the older cars. Just ask an owner of a 962.

I feel you need to get an idea of what you feel would be the most fun. I think the 964Cup, 993Cup and 996Cup all have very unique characteristics. Each requires a different style of driving. Porsche made improvements in each car. If you had the chance, you really need to drive all three. If you are like me and don't have three friends that would let you drive their cars, then you have to rely on people that have driven them. I have owned several of each.

Each one is going to be expensive to drive. That is relative. For instance, I could say buy a 964 US Cup and race on DOTs and save a lot of money, someone else could say that a GT3 is better because you don't have to adjust the valves as often, so with that said, each is going to have a cost.

All three cars handle well, with ease of driving leaning toward the newer cars. That is not to say that the new cars are easy to drive at the limit, but maybe easier to get to the limit.

Money and resale, supply and demand is a wonderful thing. Porsche has put a lot of 996 Cups on the market because people will buy them. These people will also buy the newer cars which makes a wonderful entry point for someone looking for a used factory car.

I think to be very competitive in the GT3 Cup class, you will have to spend money, up need to keep your car updated, get a lot of seat time,and have a set up that is competitive for different tracks. On the other hand a 964 US Cup could be very competitive in "D" class while using the same set up at different tracks. Look at the classes, how competitive you prospective car was, factor in the races you plan to attend, and look at the previous entry list. Just because there are 50 GT3 Cups, that wouldn't be a reason for me to buy a GT3 Cup.

In my opinion, one car is not better than the other for what you are trying to do. You need to find the deal you are comfortable with. Price, spares, condition, records etc.

I think you can't just judge this decision based on "Expense of Up keep".

Bottom line..you'll make the right decision, and have a wonderful car to club race no matter which one you buy.

 

I just finished reading all these posts and as always you guys are are the best when it comes to sharing information.
I'm curious, as I have been considering the same issue, does anyone have some idea what a 993 cup price would be assuming it is in excellent condition, never been PROFESSIONALLY raced ( a few club races) and shows 10,000 km on the speedo, two previous owners, seals still in place on the engine. I have been considering this particular car.
So what do you guys think a car like should cost?

 

What Model Year? I am assuming that motor/drivetrain has never been touched? 10Km is more than a few club races and a few DEs isn't it?

 

Probably around 80,000 if its pristine in and out, maybe more. How much are YOU willing to pay? A few years ago I had lines on a bunch of 993 cups, from $65,000 PCA warriors to perfect $80,000 examples.

 

Jim is right on. Also be weary of cars that don't have exactly correct spoilers, mirrors, etc. Is it a foreign car (a whole new ball game). When the dollar was stong, there were a bunch of guys buying old cups from abroad for the cost of F stock cars, but those days are gone. (wish I would have thought of that)

 

I apologize Jim for hijacking your thread....

I think $80K would be very high for a car that doesn't have a fresh motor/drivetrain. I also think because it was or wasn't professionally raced is not as big as deal as id the tub straight. I know they are tough on cars in the Supercup, but they fix them or they aren't competitive. In PCA, too many racers are worried about how much it cost to fix it.

I think you can find good cars in the 60s and low 70s.

 

Didn't seem to get the same inital bite that I remember from the old car. . .maybe just fanciful thinking on my part, I have no real empirical info. And I was certainly giving myself room for error with my braking points, learning a new and faster car.

Probably not until the race next month. I rented a garage at TWS and plan to be DEing there up until the race. I am determined to not be DFL in GTC3!

If you want to store some junk in there, let me know.

 

Jim, Mitch, thanks for the input. A little more info: the car is actually a 1998, one of the last few manufactured. The car was delivered new to the USA to the original owner. I have also seen a copy of the original sales invoice from Porsche and it has the original owner's name on it as the buyer. Then there is a second invoice from the original owner to the second owner. I should clarify my comment about the mileage and the clubraces to say that the second owner has done a few club races in California. How many races the original owner did I have no idea. To the best of my knowledge the engine/trans have not been out of the car.
Any more thoughts?