Kool

So I have been pondering installing a 5 or 6 point harness into one of my cars or both of my cars.

I have searched on the internet and it seems that there are 2 basic ways one can go. Either buy a sport harness which is custom made for the car and more or less made to keep you from sliding around in the car or get a harness bar and assemble a harness be it sparco, G-Force or Simpson.

What is better or worse? I have read the debate about having a proper seat for a harness with holes for the shoulder harness to pass through rather then going around the back. And how in some cases the combination of stock seats and a harness are not safe. In my Porsche I feel that a seat change would be required for a harness installation but I don't think it would be immediately necessary for the Acura as there are holes in the seat back already.

Another question is how do these harnesses secure to the car? Do they use existing holes or do most installations involve drilling new holes for placement of the I-bolts?

My goal would be to have a harness that is easily removed for street driving and yet can be installed in a relatively short amount of time for track days. Does this exist? Any advice or opinions would be greatly appreciated.

RedlineMan

Hey;

There is really only one way to do it "properly", and that is to get a race shell and 6-point belts in there. Other "lesser" combinations will give you some performance advantage over stock, but mostly just in keeping you from sliding around as much. 4-point or stock seat/harness variations will not cover you for safety concerns nearly as well, and in some instances can be a bit WORSE than OE setups.

Bottom line: You either have to commit to a fairly involved setup or leave it alone.

mitch236

Listen carefully to the voice of reason. It is summed up in the one sentence above.

Kool

ok so a seat is a must.

And by a complicated set up I guess we are talking about drilling holes and a bolt in cage? Or will a harness bar do the trick?

DGaunt

Harness bar and lap belt hadr points for the lap belt. Guess you have to drill a hole in the pan for the sub belt.

RedlineMan

Hey;

A harness bar can work, but sometimes commercially available products do not cut a fine enough line to accomodate varying personal characteristics.

For instance, I recently built a harness bar for a young lady in Florida of 5'6" stature. Any generic bar would have placed the belts pretty far from her seat, introducing rather long belt paths. I built it forward from the c-pillar, with stays down to the rear lap belt holes. She is using a stock seat with an H-strap shoulder system. Not ideal, but about as good as you can do with a stock seat. Given short belt paths and the H-strap, it should function fairly well, at least for beginner-to-intermediate needs.

As has been mentioned elsewhere many times, it is a slippery slope you are stepping onto. Keep your feet under you, meaning get good info and learn as much as you can before you take that first step.

Kool

That is kind of that I am doing. I need to go and look at some cars that have belts installed in them. And see what people have done.

The seats in my Acura already have pass throughs so I do not know whether a H strap would be necessary. I do not know if the pass throughs would work? Or whether they are more for looks. I was hoping that I could get a harness bar and straps and avoid having to buy a seat. But if I am setting myself up for failure I will just leave it be. Until I can do it right.

RedlineMan

Hey;

Those seats look like they might work OK, except for the lack of a sub hole. 6-point cradle time for you there. As long as the belts lay wide enough not to saw into your neck. H-straps are not of any particular use with pass-through holes.

Looking at what other people do is only good if those people know anything. Following the hurd off a cliff is not what you are looking to do, I shant imagine.

Kool

You are correct.

I need to do some measurements to see whether or not two 4" straps will fit through there without taking my head off.

When using a harness bar do the shoulder straps start from the bar or connect down to the floor board and go up and over the harness bar?

RedlineMan

At the bar...

... IF it is of roll cage grade. You don't use them if they are not unless they are triangulated somewhere else. Mounting belts to rear seat belt holes gives FAR too long a belt path.

CHEERS944

As the young lady refered to, I have to say that John's set-up is amazing! It fits perfectly into the car, was easy to install, and the belts attach to the bar. I can't afford racing seats, and didn't want to slide around as much at DEs. I'm using a 6-point harness, so I didn't have to drill a hole for the sub on a 5-point. The 2 sub straps go under my legs & attach to the lap belt bolts. The H-strap behind the seat keeps the shoulder straps close in to the seat back, and I also cross them in the front to prevent slippage, as my shoulders aren't that broad. I've used the setup once on the track since installing it last month, and it made such a difference from the stock seatbelt!

Thank you, John!!!!!

Dad took some pics, I'll get him to post them to show the finished product

DanS911

Thanks Christal for putting me on the spot...now I have to dig up those pictures and post them!

John,
I will say that your setup was outstanding! Solid as a rock, fit in perfectly in less than twenty minutes .........now the belts on the other hand........

Had to take the seats out to get the inboard lap belt connections to the seat belt mounting points. Pain going out ......more pain going in.......very tight fit to the tunnel with the "extra" belts.
We left the three points in as this is primarily a street car. We WON"T be taking them in and out though!

Mark,
After all said and done the set up looks quite good. Between the H-Strap in back and crossing the belts in front (you have to set them up with that intent on the bar) they are snug and show NO signs of being able to slip off.

Overall I would highly recommend doing it. It MUST be safer than the 3pt setup, and you will be much more secure in the seat.

Pictures coming.

Owain

Yeah, John's rollbar seems to me to be the best out there. It mounts to existing hard points (rear seat belt locations) so no drilling is required and is much more secure than just using a harness bar. The problem with a harness bar is that if your car rolls and the impact is enough to bring down the roof, you, while strapped immobile in your seat, are the next highest point. With John's rollbar supporting the roof you have a bit more of a chance. I bought one on eBay a month ago (sorry, John) along with a Recaro SRD and will use them with my existing 5-point belts (I had a harness bar in there, but after thinking about it I never felt very comfortable with it); I'm looking forward to the upcoming track season. I don't want to ever test it but it makes me feel a little more secure knowing it's there.

Most of the harness bars I've seen for the 944 shouldn't have belts mounted to them. It's worth restating that in the event of a crash they may not withstand the force and will buckle unless they are reinforced in some way (think buttresses and triangulated bars). Therefore the belts should be attached to another hard-point, like a rear seatbelt mount, and then the harness bar used to guide the belts, rather than secure them. In that case the belts are too long as John says and the overall stretch might be too great (each inch of belt will stretch a certain amount under load, so more inches of belt = more overall stretch).

I think the Redline Rollbar is only available for your 944, though

Kool

Thanks Dan

Looking forward to seeing the pictures. So do the belts stay in the car at all times or only for DE's?

In my head my setup would be in the car for DE's and out for daily driving. And as an added dream I would like to be able to swap the belts between both cars. So am I dreaming or could that be done?

Thisbar as an example would fit both cars. But as I read the description they use the rear seat buckles for "high speed" events.

Kool

John

Do you think you could help me with my dream set up?

Feel free to laugh if I sound like I am crazy.