SundayDriver

OK, I will start a new thread for this topic. I said that when I am doing really fast laps, I am driving in terror on pretty much every part of every corner. Language can mean different things to different people, so I will expand. Terror does not mean you are paralyzed in fear, only that you ARE scared. This whole attempt to drive fast is really based on making your mind and body do things that they do not want to do. You are completely violating your self preservation instincts. So what do I mean by being terrified when I drive? I will use T11 at Mid Ohio. Now this is a pretty scary turn and while there are plenty of people faster than I am, I have not raced anyone who is faster through T11. Here is how I feel and what happens there...

Approaching the turn, I know I have to go deep. Any early braking and someone is going underneath. But the car is still turning. Late braking and the inside is trying to lock up and the car is immediately off balance and sliding big as I start the turn in. I am fighting for control from the moment I hit the brakes there. At that point, part of me just "knows" I am never going to make the apex. But the car starts to hook up at the apex. The feeling of relief is fleeting as the hill is approaching. Look for a reference to try to decide if I can unwind the wheel enough to keep the *** end of the car underneath me. Over the crest of the hill as the revs suddenly jump by 1000 and the tail does a little twitch and settles.

Now the track out curb is approaching with a pretty big chunk if dirt missing just prior to the curb. My mind is sure I am not going to stay on track, but I am at full throttle anyway with walls on both sides of the exit (better now that they moved walls back). Maybe the car stays off the curb and all is well. Otherwise, I catch a bit of curb and fight to keep the car straight.

Was that terrifying? You bet it was and it will be every freaking time I go through there with some real speed.

There are three times when I am NOT aware of the terror:
1) I am pissed off at the person in front of me and driving on hate.
2) I am pissed off at the car or myself, and driving on hate.
3) I am not driving fast enough.

So I know that some of you manage this terror better than I do, but that is how I drive and how I feel when I drive near the limit.

Jack667

Wasn't it Mario Andretti who said something like 'If everything seems like its under control, you're not going fast enough' ?
I'm sure there are many folks on this board that would disagree with that.
I've always thought of that statement as more of an illustrative joke, than anything else. Sunday's comment about terror reminded me of that old line.
Well - maybe he really meant it, in some watered down way.
Oddly enough, each of those statements sort of sound like a goal of max G-sum. You always (wait - never speak in absolutes!) want to be driving at the car's limit because it is fastest. You should be a little scared (terrified?) as you appproach the limit, because you may be in big trouble if you exceed the limit.

You can really tell when the off season kicks into full gear as we start spending so much time on silliness...

SundayDriver

"If you are under control, you are not going fast enough." — Parnelli Jones (Also attributed to Mario)

"When in doubt, go full throttle. It may not get you out of trouble, but it will end the suspense sooner." — Sunday Driver

MJR911

Well said Mark. I think you're spot on, but I'm sure some of the DE gods on here will pipe up. I also don't drive well when I have tunnel vision, trying to track that guy in front of me. Heat of the battle is the most fun, but you won't lay down your best time unless you've already done a drafting strategy with the guy or gal.

RedlineMan

Mark -

Hmmm... It's Turn 13 at MO that gets me queazy.

Anyway... Your limit is a lot higher. I know that is a relative thing, but you are going WAY faster than the rest of us, inches from the ground, blasting your spine to bits... You are on a much higher plane than the rest of us, and you're racing for keeps. Your "terror" is REAL, and I can only imagine the feel of it. I don't WANT to go that fast. Things happen a lot slower in my world, and I like it that way.

I rarely get uneasy, unless I am on my "training tires." That's how I know I can go faster on my good ones.

"Throttle will get you Out of more trouble than it will get you Into" - ME

38D

"You can't drive well or fast while your hair is on fire" - David Murry speaking to the CVR region last year. He elaborated to say go fast when you're not relaxed and in control.

For me I would say there is a difference between terror and the adreneline of racing. I can be excited, but still stay pretty relaxed. I find that if I am scared, there is usually good reason to be so...like when I'm inverted... now that is scary!

78SC

I would say the feeling for me is not terror unless I have screwed something up. For me it is more a feeling of being just outside my personal comfort zone. I find that if I am not slightly uncomfortable while going through a fast sweeper, I am leaving something on the table. I usually find the trick is not letting myself slip back into that comfort zone which means I have slowed down a just a hair in every corner and hit that brakes a few feet too soon which adds up to lots of time over the course of a lap and a race.

Larry Herman

Thanks for starting this thread Mark. I have to say that I am rarely afraid, in terror or scared when I drive. In fact, some of the fastest laps that I have driven didn't feel particularly spectacular. I have a feeling, which maybe others could verify, that we each drive up to what our own personal limit is, and with some of us, that limit is closer to what the "real" limit is than it is with others. Maybe that is why some drivers must really challenge themselves to get past that artificial barrier, while others seem to easily go right to the edge.

One time going through turn 10 at the Glen, a very fast left hander, I got way over the turtles and had the outside wheels on the grass. That line takes you straight into the tire wall! I kept it collected and motored on through 11 and onto the straight. I just looked at my passenger and said "that was a bit close, huh?" That is what gets my attention; I only seem to feel that fear when I have a big screwup.

The times that I feel that I am not close enough to the limit, I just try and smooth things out, and get my rhythm back. That makes everything slow down, and feel comfortable again, and I find myself naturally driving harder and harder. This does not mean that I don't slide the car around (remember I'm the one who said that all cars feel like crap at the limit), but it just doesn't feel like I am out of control when the car is in a big drift. It feels like it is doing exactly what I want it to.

hinchcliffe

Not sure if its terror or just adrenaline. Going a bit faster in a corner they I did before and I get that uneasy, outside of my comfort zone feeling, but I get through the corner faster, and then I do it again and become more at one with it. Then a few more times and I'm going harder again and getting thet feeling again. Its not terror unless you're heading at the wall.

TD in DC

I have a feeling that this thread has a lot of definitional issues.

Here is what I want to know: For those of you who regularly experience "terror" (for lack of a better word) in all or certain corners, when do you start to feel it (e.g., before turn in, at turn in, at apex, at track out)? In other words, is the feeling a product of thinking about the corner or is it a result of what your car is doing during the corner? What can be learned by looking at where and why you feel uncomfortable in a corner?

Just curious

RedlineMan

Hmmmm...

The only time I feel uneasy going in is when I have caught myself day dreaming and not concentrating hard enough. I feel uneasy beyond that only when the car does not respond to my input for some reason. It's usually the former. But again, I rarely get out of shape, so I know there is more left. Probably quite a bit.

Now, the hard part...

mitch236

I think what Mark is talking about is the difference between really fast drivers and fast drivers. I hate to keep rehashing my experience with Justin Bell but when he came in from the back straight at Homestead (I think turn 10) which is downhill (because of the banking) I was sceaming inside becuase I know we were going to wreck! Of course we didn't and he held the car on track with sheer ability but I have still never taken that turn as fast as him. Later he told me that turn was pretty much standard in pro racing and the top guys can take it even faster. Now that was terror!

TD in DC

Mitch, was Justin concerned?

Z-man

Having read Ross Bentley's "Inner Speed Secrets" I believe that keeping the adrenaline level at a low level is beneficial to racing and track driving. Adrenaline causes one to become more twitchy and less smooth. All the senses are hightened, making it difficult to concentrate on the task at hand.

The opposite of the adrenaline rush is what Bentley calls "being in the Zone." Your breathing gets deeper, your pulse slows, your focus becomes acute. All your actions become almost mechanical, subliminal. Everything slows down. While everything seems to slow down inside the car, you're actually going faster.

There have been a couple of times where I experienced 'the zone.' Last time was at Watkins Glen at a DE with NNJR this past summer. Seemed everything slowed down, yet I was keeping up with, even passing cars I hadn't passed before. Exhilerating, really. Just wish I knew how to get there more often!

Regarding 'terror,' I am aware of when my corner entry is faster than before - to me it feels like I'm about to dive off a high diving board - nothing I can do but take a deep breath, and squeeze close the sphinkter muscle. (Now for some of you, visualizing the region around my sphinkter may be terror enough!!! )

-Z-man.

NoSubEDU

It's the "Oh ****" moment at turn-in that defines "terror" for me.