mitch236

It was kind of funny, he was making all these grunting noises (we were using a communicator so I could hear everthing) but no. He was definately working but he said that in a race, he would be pushing a little harder knowing he needed to win at most costs and wouldn't feel too bad if he wadded the car.

Professor Helmüt Tester

We may be calling it 'terror' and 'major pucker', and it may all be the same thing. When I'm really hooked up, I'm nice and relaxed but I still have short windows of major pucker/apprehension several times a lap, especially during qualifying. I'm way more relaxed during the race, and think I have an advantage on starts in that I am calm, collected and 'thinking', and seem to be able to strategize 'on the fly' as chaos breaks out around me. I don't get the pucker/apprehension from things happening around me (nothing I can do about it, anyway) but rather it's a reaction to me tossing myself off the cliff, unsure of the tide below - "Will it stick, or won't it ?".

A short story - a few years ago at an SCCA Nat'l, we were group 1 for the weekend, and Saturday morning Q1 was dry, blue skies and 38 degrees F (think 'lap record'). Pole was set by a 2-time SCCA RunOffs champ, who smoked the lap record by about 0.5 secs...pretty amazing in what was (argueably) the most competitive class in SCCA racing. His comments about his one smoking hot lap, as we were all standing around looking bugeyed at the Q1 sheets from T&S ? "Man...I don't think I have another one of those in me...". He knew he was pushing the limits, and there was nothing 'relaxing' about it.

Wreck Me Otter

I'm a mid-pack racer and what I noticed is that normally I drive under control only having to correct when I make a mistake or conditions change...pretty easy driving.

However, there are 2 different times when I have my fastest laps:

1) Lots of corrections in corners as the car drifts through them, inducing some amount of "terror" as Mark describes it, but being conservative, it's more like a little scare. Hard for me to be consistent with that yet.

2) Total confidence, everything seems slow and easy and I don't feel that anything can happen. Corrections happen instantly and doesn't worry me in the least. I'm having fun and feel good. No idea how I get into that state, but it happens from time to time...sometimes only for a few laps, other times for the whole race. This is what z-man is talking about.

Kind of a funny story. We had a race weekend at Thunderhill where it was on and off rain, when it rained it was a down pour. I hadn't driven in the rain much, but when I did, I recall it being a lot of fun and not very hard (if you're smooth and slow down enough). I had my full tread RA1's and was ready to go, very excited to get out there and see how it goes.

The practice session started out slow and easy but then I started to feel pretty comfortable and started pushing it a lot harder. I was passing pretty much every car out there with easy...kind of laughing to myself why they were going so slowly. I was catching a friend of mine who is usually a second or two quicker than I am quite easily. He spun in the esses trying to stay ahead...I laughed as I went by...

I'm feeling really cocky now and corrections are happening more and more but it seems easy. My feet and hands are smooth and the car is drifting in corners but under my complete control. I'm having a blast.

I pass a couple of cars going down the front straight, go through T1 with a slight drift, head to T2 (big sweeper) still flying (compared to the other cars...). Somewhere on exit I correct and recover but I jerk the wheel instead of doing it smoothly....WHOOOSH...backend comes around and I'm gone...doing a 720 (or more...) heading to T3...yikes...never spun for this long before...Finally stop at the entrance of T3, unclench the sphincter, start breathing again, and watch the two cars that I had passed before T1, go by...I'm sure they're laughing now....

After I get going again (wondering if I need to go in and clean the shorts), all of a sudden, every corner is now hard and the slides are bigger and I'm no longer smooth or confident. I am now running at eveyone elses pace, crawling around the track, just hoping to get through the session.

Same car, same conditions, same tires...just lost confidence...I'm sure I was 20 seconds slower after the spin...all due to a loss of confidence.....

}{arlequin

cool topic. it's that "terror" part that got me into this whole thing in the first place. (and hasn't let go)

i found it pretty early on in the oh-****-i-almost-got-in-an-accident moment while street driving. happened a few more times and i was onto it. after my first lap ever, i knew that corners had those moments for me, every time, every lap. i was a goner.

i do get the slow-mo feeling out there, but i also agree that if i'm not feeling the terror, i'm not going fast enough. or at least that i could go faster. it begins at turn-in or moments before when i know i'm "going for it" which means more speed that i am comfortable with, but also know that it's doable.

not surprisingly, my favorite corners are the fast ones- the kind that could really hurt you, not just the car. they also quickly separate the nutty from the rest. going fast through MO's "keyhole" is one thing, going fast through entrance (right hander) into "thunder alley" is another.

pass the crackpipe please.

JCP911S

First, I'm usually never "terrified" when I am driving at my limit (as opposed to THE limit), but I would say I am at a totally different level of concentration...breaking the turn into smaller and smaller pieces, much more focused on execution at each step, and more alert for any deviation that might indicate a correction required.

Generally I find if I push beyond that, I just get sloppy and start scrubbing speed and making mistakes.... so I try to hold tight, and keep it tidy...

However, I suspect that I'm at least two clicks below what the car can do.... I think it is a lack of consistency where I have to create a wider "safety zone" to account for variation lap tp lap in execution.... I just feel it is better to back off a bit than to spin...

Phokaioglaukos

I have known that crack pipe. Back when I was in college I was driving home late at night on a SD Interstate from visiting my girlfriend for a couple of days. I shouldn't have been on the road in that condition, and there was a blizzard, too. The snow was about 5"-8" deep on the road, but there were tracks cut into it by the semi-trailer traffic. Unfortunately, the truck tracks were wider than that of my Opel. As I got up to speed the car would oscillate left and right slipping into and out of the tracks. At a certain speed (maybe 50 mph?) the oscillations would exceed my ability control, and I would spin, usually about 270 degrees or so. The first time scared me to death. The second time, less so. I can't remember how many spins I made, but it was a bit addicting. Note that this was a rural Interstate in SD where the overpasses are few and far between, but I do remember seeing some pass by as I spun. I also remember a car I passed about four times--of course it passed me right back each time I spun. I was not finding the quick way around that course.

Today I am older and a bit wiser. When I spun coming on to the bowl at Pocono (only time in the GT3!), I had the excuse of a wet track and starting to pass a slower car a with too much power for the conditions. I felt myself to be calm as I had to go both feet in. After that spin I drove overly cautiously for a session or so, but when I had the rear step out of my at about the same point in another session it was easy to pull it back in.

I learned some car handling skills from each set of events, but I learned more from the calm ones. I don't seek that crack any more. I learn better and retain more when I'm in my comfort zone. It's safer, too.

mrbill_fl

Oh yeah! The bus stop at Daytona comes to mind... I have often put my rt hand on my knee as a reminder: Don't lift.

same at Homstead's T10, don't touch brakes, don't lift. hand on knee / thigh, never really felt comfortable thru there, without touching the brakes, but if I was to gain any ground, had to do it... (the fast guys I was following weren't touching the brakes.)

in just about every race I did well in, I felt like I was on the ragged edge of control....

I think IT7 was a lot like Spec Miata is today. With so many equal cars, just being good wasn't enough to win. had to take risks.

now that I only do DE's, I'm much smoother, more relaxed, confident.... of course I'm not at 10/10ths... (and now I get more than 2 seasons on a motor)

TD in DC

That's funny. I am addicted to exactly the "opposite" feeling. I get a rush out of feeling like I am driving my car at the limit under complete control. I know that I have a long way to go before I am consistently driving my car at the limit (although I have exceeded the limit a few times ), but I really like the feeling you get when you are "in the groove" and everything slows way down. I like making the car slide, but only when I feel like I am in full control of that slide. I haven't really been "scared" yet, but the closest I have come is when I realize that I have made an error and that I am going to spin. Of course, I might change this view with more experience.

Racerrob

That has been my experience. My fastest laps have occurred when I was in a zone where I felt completely in tune with all of my senses and the the car. I think the biggest difference between club racers and pros is the ability to get in this zone on demand. I have been able to get there but I cant call it up on command. Like the OP, I know I am there when I do 11 at Mid O just right. Great thread.



Having read Ross Bentley's "Inner Speed Secrets" I believe that keeping the adrenaline level at a low level is beneficial to racing and track driving. Adrenaline causes one to become more twitchy and less smooth. All the senses are hightened, making it difficult to concentrate on the task at hand.

The opposite of the adrenaline rush is what Bentley calls "being in the Zone." Your breathing gets deeper, your pulse slows, your focus becomes acute. All your actions become almost mechanical, subliminal. Everything slows down. While everything seems to slow down inside the car, you're actually going faster.

mitch236

I was thinking about the original post alot. I guess for me the most "terrifying" times happen during fast sweepers when coming into the brake zone and seeing another car in front. I always think I am going to rear end him but at the last second, the car in front turns and is gone. Very scary for a few seconds though. I am especially thinking about turn 14 at Sebring.

38D

Me too. My fastest laps have tended to be when I'm relaxed.

RSRRacer

I am glad for this thread.... made me rethink how close to the limit I may be.

While I dont have much experience racing, I do beileve (perhaps in error) that I am at the limit much of the time and doing this without any "pucker factor" or terror. I do think the level of "terror" is in proportion to 1) the speed of the your car in the corner and 2) what options you have if you run out of skill/road/luck in the corner.

For example, most of VIR is low risk. Not much pucker there, maybe south bend, nascar, entrance to upper esses. Same with CMP. Watkins Glen, Mid Ohio, more pucker!!

So, for me, the pucker is more the lack of runoff than anything the car may be doing.

}{arlequin

yeah, runoff, or lack of it, plays a big part. south bend is a good example of terror for me even though it has space.

Larry Herman

I only find that lack of runoff is a problem when you need it. For some reason, turn 9 at the Glen is one of my better turns, and the proximity to the guardrail is a non-issue. South Bend is like that too. When I get it right, I storm through there without a concern, and when I am a little off, well the car is light, and too far to the left, and why isn't there more braking area, and boy that gulley runs deep on the outside, and sh*t this turn is fast.

camber799

Anyone who says they aren't frequently scared on the track is FOS and/or really SLOW.