Gang... Need some help.

I have my HANS and did some test fittings.

I have taped the straps to the helmet in the proper spots per the instructions.
I'd like some opinions on if they are right before I do any drilling.

Also how do the belts seem to go? I am pretty sure the spacing on the bar is fine although I may put rings on the bar to ensure this.



My main question is the height of the bar. My measurements take it rigtht about the 2" down from horizontal. That is the limit of the HANS installation instructions.

This is show below




Now I also pulled my seat bottom pad as the seat is already at the lowest mounting location. This lowers me in the car by about 1" and makes the angles better. However I am starting to run into difficulty seeing out of the car sitting that low.

Here is a pic with me sitting lower in the seat.




Opinions?

As if you see anything odd or wrong please let me know. Better to find out now.
Thanks

 

Hey Joe;

Your instincts are right on. You've been studying! There's nothing better than educated consumer!

Install the HANS mounts where they tell you to. You were smart to remove the seat pad. You appear to right on the outer limit of belt angle. It is a balancing act between having a tad of compression to keep everything in place, and having so much that things might squirt out. Collar bones are another concern in the extreme, as compression can compromise them. Given the other objects of concern, a collar bone or two pales a bit, but...

I guess the first order is to find out whether your butt can stand not having the pad. Then, whether you can acquaint yourself to the change in vision. If you can get used to it, I think you are fine. If you need to sit higher, I think you really need to mod the belt mount to raise it too.

And do install the belt retainers when you are done. Now, regarding containment seats...

RedlineMan - Reporting live from Brockville, Ontario.

 

Those look like new Schroth belt. They also make a shoulder harness that shrinks down to 2" where it lays over the Hans shoulder. It's now approved for 06' by PCA. http://www.schrothracing.com/products/competition/1609

 

It looks as though the slots in the seatback don't allow the harness to dress/rest properly, which would lead me to believe that it is not that comfortable as currently configured.
Looks like an SPG seat?

Perhaps a different seat and/or moving the horizontal attach point (up) on the rollcage would rectify this issue?

The HANS seems to generate costs greater than the cost of the device itself.

 

Of course;

If the seat is interfering to any great degree with the belts you should mod the seat holes. If everything is properly oriented, I personally do not see the need for the Schroth 2/3 belts. Neither does HANS. Nothing wrong with them, mind. I have no problems with my setup with standard Simpson stuff at all. One thing you can do is set them up so the cinches do not fall at the same length. This allows you to get the shoulder straps closer together!

Speaking of HANS potentially costing you more... perhaps not. If the HANS "forces" you to do a lot of work to maximize its effectiveness, then that is a GOOD thing. Having the belts at the right height, through clear openings in a properly positioned seat is the proper configuration for EVERY setup, regardless of equipment. So, the HANS forces you to do what you should have already done, just perhaps in a new position. Most of the time, I'd wager that making the HANS work right is the first time most people have ever thought about that stuff anyway, if they ever knew at all.

So, if you end up with new belts, a containment seat, side nets, and you end up a lot safer as a result... That's a bargain!

 

John,
The catch 22 in M758's scenario may turn out to be homologation/certification.

The decision to purchase a HANS over ISAAC IIRC was due to SFI38.1 certification for the HANS.
Now, if he does modify the seat's belt openings in the shell, does he not invalidate his SFI/FIA certification on the seat?
Further, by drilling a helmet (as opposed to purchasing the newer helmets which are predrilled or homologated wtih specific drill locations) does he not invalidate that certification as well.
If the sanctioning body were to fully enforce their requirements/rules/desires to the letter, this would cause a problem. likely a larger problem than if the ISAAC were purchased in the first place (no need to drill helmet due to mounts being attached by binary adhesives and the seat would likely not have to be modified at all).

An interesting irony if the lines of logic are carried to their (ridiculous) conclusions, and I am specifically staying like Switzerland (neutral) in the whole H&N restraint/certification discussion.

I 100% agree with you that making people to think about these issues is far more valuable than the capital investment in personal safety devices themselves.

 

Now that is funny! So true. I think my safety system is worth more than my whole car.

 

Ideal belt angle is 0 degrees from hortizontal to 20 degrees below. You look O.K. from this picture angle. You will definately need the aluminium collars to lock the belts so they do not slide. Check your seat back brace. That unit looks like it will just rotate around the bar and do you no good unless it is also bolted to your seat. Also, you can cut an aluminium seat but I don't think you can cut a plastic seat. Either way if you do it you should think about additional support in the head area from a rear hit since if you cut it you weaken it. Typically the seat holes are more narrow than the HANS collar so you have no worries. The problem comes in when the shoulderbelts stand on the HANS and then the belts hit the top or bottom of the seat holes. Then you get the shoulder belts dumping off. Make sure you have clearance from the top and bottom of your seat holes to the belt.

 

I hope you don't think using adhesives to attache the Isaac would void the Snell cert any less than the holes drilled to attach a HANS.

This is not a matter of HANS vs Isaac, but rather attaching any H&N device to attachments that are not specifically engineered into the final product.

 

Thanks for the input.

Seat is a sparco pro2000. I don't believe the seat holes are issue based on this photo (I had the seat pad in for this pic)



Looks like I will drill the helmet for the HANS holes & Put the rings on the harness bar. Then take it out to the track and test the no seat pad.

If it does not workout from a vision standpoint then I will put the pad back in and probably need to have my cage guy do some work.

So... do you guys think he could just add a bar just above the existing bar from the main hoop to the diagonal (not all the way across?)

 

Can you lower the seat mounting? That would get a better angle off the cage. It also makes the HANS more comfortable when you don't have so much downward compression.

BTW, why the blue tape?

 

The seat is bolted to floor with no sliders and is on the lowest settings on the side rails already. I can't get the seat lower without cutting out the floor of the car.

Even then I may not be able to see over the dash.

The blue tape is there as temp location for the HANS straps before I drill the helmet.

I only have one chance to drill the helmet right.

 

Interesting. I was looking for a picture of my setup. I also had to bolt the seat to the floor. That seemed to solve my HANS problem ( I bolted it to the floor because my helmet hit the roof).

Good luck, you are on the right track.

 

Lew;

Very good points indeed, well thought out and opined. The real problem with the SFI is that it appears they are more interested in reducing the liabilities of their member/manufacturers, and protecting their sales, than providing the best product to the consumer.

Joe;

I think the best solution is to add the tube you suggest, as it would be quite simple. It would fix all of your problems. It will allow you to put the pad back in, see better, AND get your belt angles closer to level. I would not hesitate to install another tube right above that one, and limit it to the distance out to the diagonal.

Further, I might suggest you have your cage man mount the belt ends using three-bar sliders and spring clips on eye bolts. Have him drill and sleeve the new belt bar and install the eye bolts thusly. This has a few advantages, as it allows the belts to be mounted very close together for HANS rentention, and yet to rotate to a good departure angle from the bar, all without letting them ever slip laterally.

 

John,
Do you mean like this setup? Just with two straps instead of 4?





Ok...

So my plan is this...

My next event is Dec 17th, 18th.

I will try that event without the seat pad and the HANS and see how it goes.

If I can't see I will put the pad back it place. Now should I try to run with the HANS if it does not hurt and then after that event get my bar modded...
Or should not use the HANS at all if I can't run without the seat pad.

My thinking is that I do not have the time to get the bar added btween now and then and frankly I may not even need it. I do figure that running with HANS and the angle off just a bit is better than no HANS at all. Of course this would be temportary until I got the cage fixed.