M758

Well,
Looks like Christmas is coming early this year.


I have freed-up some cash for some well needed safety upgrades to my race car.

A H&N device is first on the list along with helmet to replace my SA95 unit.
Then gotta replace my worn race shoes. Side net...

And then I have some $$ left over. I am thinking about a proper fire system.

Any advice on what to look for avoid?

Fire retardant type? Volume, Electric vs Manual, # nozzles?


Thanks...

Larry Herman

I am interesting in following this thread as well, and have a question that can be answered in the process. Can you have a two button setup, i.e. one just for the engine, and one for interior, or does it have to be "all or nothing"?

TD in DC

You could have a two button system, but do you really want to be futzing around with two separate controls in the event of an emergency? My system has the trigger placed behind the shifter within easy reach. There are two pins, one on the bottle itself, and one on the trigger. I remove the pin on the bottle before my runs, but I leave the pin on for the trigger itself so that I do not accidentally trigger it. I want to put a big red loop on the pin to make it easier to pull, but I have yet to do that. My system has aluminum plumbing throughout the passenger compartment and engine compartment. I haven't had to use it yet, but the instructions explain that, in the event of fire, you are supposed to activate the system and then "walk" away from the fire because the foam coats your body -- if you run, you will run out of the foam I think that would require a fair amount of self control.

Kurt M. keeps threatening to pull the pin on the system just so he can laugh at me while I try to clean all the foam out of my car.

TD

M758

So are you guys using AFFF or Halon?


Larry, I guess the easy way is to run two smaller systems. One dedicated for the engine and one for inside the car.

It will cost you twice as much.

TD in DC

Here is the system that I use.

http://www.apexperformance.net/cartg...p?pid=56&cid=7

One nozzle in the engine compartment, one nozzle for me, and, IIRC, one in the rear of the car near the gas tank.

Larry Herman

Todd, I just thought that with the all or nothing system, one would be more reticent to pull the pin unless they knew for certain that there was a blazing fire. If you were to have an incident, and there was a lot of smoke coming from the engine compartment, you might be more inclined to set off the system just to prevent a possible engine fire, knowing that it wouldn't be dousing you as well.

earlyapex

I'm using AFFF. The Halon systems were pricey and I'm told expensive to recharge. I also don't like the idea of a gas the cold suffocate me if I were stuck in the car.

TD in DC

I see exactly where you are coming from. In addition to lacking experience with this (thankfully), my assumption is that use of the fire suppression is the "nuclear option." If I can get out of my car without setting it off despite smoke from under the hood, I imagine that I likely would do so. Under most circumstances, I can imagine that the flaggers would get there pretty soon with the extinguishers. If it looked like it was getting worse, I guess you could always pull it then. Of course, your car is worth a lot more than mine, so I focused only on saving myself.

Lemming

A fire system is next on my list, now that I have my R3. I've been eyeing up the same system that Todd is using, for those of you that have the system, what are the pros and cons?

Larry, I was thinking along the same lines of separate systems. However, if you think that you have a small engine fire, the best thing might be to just pull over at the next flag station, get the heck out of the car, and let the flagger hit it with a handheld unit.

TD in DC

Here are a few pictures of the install on my car. You can see two nozzles in the engine compartment and one pointing at the passenger compartment. The trigger is behind the shifter on the right side of the center tunnel. The bottle is in the rear of the car.

OGRacing

TD
If the car is on fire and you think that the corner workers are going to get the fire knocked down before any damage happens, think again. It doesn't take very long for wiring or plastics to be damaged. How much will even a small fire lasting 1 minute cost to repair. Once you're out of the car you shouldn't reach back into it. If you think there's a fire hit the button and get out. Hope that the corner workers aren't using dry powder( corrosive to electrical and a mess to clean up).

AFFF versus Halon? Pound for pound Halon is still the most effective product. AFFF does coat and cool what it is sprayed on. Thats a good point. The clean up isn't that bad. The Halon 1301 that is used in better systems is not toxic to drivers in the concentrations required to suppress ignition. The Halon 1211 that is used in most exstinguishers is not approved for use in an inclosed area. HALATRON requires twice as much as Halon to suppress the same fire.

Larry asked about a split system. You could run two separate systems. Five pound for the engine and a five pound for the driver compartment.

When you mount the activation button, put it out of the way but easily reachable by the driver. Not where it could be hit accidently by driver or passenger.

The discharge nozzle for the driver should not be so high up that the driver is sprayed in the chest/face. This is very important so when the driver does accidently hit the activation button as he shifts gears at Limerock the Halon being discharged doesn't scare him and cause him to go staight at turn 1. No name mentioned.

When you pull onto the race track remove the safety pin for the system. In the event that something bad happens you may not remember that the pin is still in.
Don't put the pin back in until you are ready to get out of the car.

Hope I haven't bored anyone with this post. Just trying to give everyone some helpfull info.

Bill Love

M758

Bill,
Do you recommend 5 lbs or 10 lbs for a 944.

With 3 nozzles I'd figure one for the driver, one for engine near the fuel rail area over the hot exhaust and maybe a 3rd one in the back near the fuel tank.

I figure fire could result from fuel leak in front putting fuel on the hot exhaust or from a ruputred fuel tank or lines from a crash.

Or is it better with go with a 5lbs two nozzle system with the idea being that 5lbs is not enough to pump out 3 nozzles and that each will be too little do do much.

mrbill_fl

This looks like the same system TD installed, from ESS.

nice thing about this system, is it is user refillable, track side.
(so if racing, and you shoot it off, you could recharge and get back out.)

I'm keeping my original hand held bottle, just in case.


http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y15...o/f874b8a0.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y15...o/PB060018.jpg


Oh, if I had it to do over, I get the larger system.

fwiw: I shot off a 5# system on another car during installing it... seemed like about 20 seconds worth.

I'm also looking at the H/N systems, then a fuel cell.

kurt M

I purchased a Halon system for OG Racing some years ago. One nozzle in the front with the gas tank one in the driver’s compartment and one in the motor bay. The bottle is in the front and the punch button is right next to the headlight switch on an early 911. Lucky for me I can't tell you how well it works and hope to never "get" to test it. One reason I went with the halon over the foam was cleanup. If I pull a” Duh” moment and hit it by accident I will be out $ but will not have a car that doubles as a washing machine. I am the kind that would hit it too.
I also like the simple actuation design and feel it is very likely to work when I want it to. It is all mechanical and has only one pin that I can see and reach from the driver’s seat. I pull the pin from my seat after I get in and setup and put it back before I get out. I have the pin on a cable loop and can just grab the easy to see loop to pull it out if I have forgotten to do so. I have been thinking of replacing the steel safe pin with one made from aluminum. This way I can just punch right through it if I have forgotten to have it in the fire mode when needed. I also like that the actuator is stone cold simple. You just punch a big red button that drives a flex cable inside a tube forward. The other end of the cable has a sharp tube on it that punches through a thin metal disk and releases the gas. No power or batteries to go bad, short out or valves to jam and one safety pin that you can see when seated. The down side is unlike some of the electrical units there is no outside actuator. I have the button mounted right next to the driver’s window and have a sticker on the door but I don't think this is a good as the outside push button. A corner worker would have to reach in to fire it as well as know what to do in the first place.

I would bet that almost any system would have to be well though out before it was available on the market.

Someday Todd….Just to see what it looks like.

earlyapex

Bill, thanks for your explanation especially about the safety of Halon for the driver.

Can't count on corner workers or your own senses regarding fires. We've all seen drivers stay in cars with fire spitting out of their cars not aware of their predicament. We all know how long it takes for a safety team to get to a stranded car, which is always stuck at the farthest point of the track. One of the most visible examples of course occurred during an F1 Indy race where Ralf S. crashed in the front straight and sat unable to get himself out of his car.