Hahns-like devices and DE
11-07-2005, 09:49 AM
#121
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Originally Posted by mitch236
Seriously, what is the thinking on having a student show up with a seat with lateral head restraints when the passenger seat has none?
11-07-2005, 10:21 AM
#122
Mr. Excitement
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As I said in my previous post I am not and was not recommending the stock seat with harness setup only pointing out that sometimes if properly setup it could work better than many stock setups and such a rule might deny this to a few that would otherwise be better off with it than not. If that were the case the rule would have a counter effect for those instances. It only reminded me of the point that sometimes hard fast inflexible rules have unintended consequences. With DE I think this is the case as even if we are dealing with one brand of car there are many different models and variations within the models themselves. What might be ill advised in one car might be a true improvement in another.
I think we could agree that people that have some DE experience are better drives for it and would be more likely to avoid or mitigate a street accident. This is the rub with DE. You want people to do it and making them change their car in order to do this might dissuade some from driving and learning with us. I as tech chair have had to thumb down some setups that I felt would not work well. I have also advised some drivers to make some adjustments such as crossing the straps and the like.
You are free to disagree with me and in some setups I agree, harnesses would be less safe than the stock system but the point was not that rule but rules overall.
The point or topic I was entertaining was more in general than specific to this one rule.
Mitch. The newer 6 point systems does not use or need a sub hole. Running them in a sub hole or around the front negates the “whole” idea “behind” them. (sorry, bad puns) You sit on the straps and they exit the seat at the sides along with the lap belts. Acording to the test data this setup works much better than the 5 point thong strap running over the front of a stock seat or in a proper sub hole.
I think we could agree that people that have some DE experience are better drives for it and would be more likely to avoid or mitigate a street accident. This is the rub with DE. You want people to do it and making them change their car in order to do this might dissuade some from driving and learning with us. I as tech chair have had to thumb down some setups that I felt would not work well. I have also advised some drivers to make some adjustments such as crossing the straps and the like.
You are free to disagree with me and in some setups I agree, harnesses would be less safe than the stock system but the point was not that rule but rules overall.
The point or topic I was entertaining was more in general than specific to this one rule.
Mitch. The newer 6 point systems does not use or need a sub hole. Running them in a sub hole or around the front negates the “whole” idea “behind” them. (sorry, bad puns) You sit on the straps and they exit the seat at the sides along with the lap belts. Acording to the test data this setup works much better than the 5 point thong strap running over the front of a stock seat or in a proper sub hole.
11-07-2005, 02:01 PM
#123
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Originally Posted by kurt M
As I said in my previous post I am not and was not recommending the stock seat with harness setup. [I was] only pointing out that sometimes if properly setup it could work better than many stock setups, and such a rule might deny this to a few that would otherwise be better off with it than not. If that were the case, the rule would have a counter effect for those instances. It only reminded me of the point that sometimes hard fast inflexible rules have unintended consequences. With DE I think this is the case as even if we are dealing with one brand of car there are many different models and variations within the models themselves. What might be ill advised in one car might be a true improvement in another.
I think we could agree that people that have some DE experience are better drives for it and would be more likely to avoid or mitigate a street accident. This is the rub with DE. You want people to do it and making them change their car in order to do this might dissuade some from driving and learning with us. I as tech chair have had to thumb down some setups that I felt would not work well. I have also advised some drivers to make some adjustments such as crossing the straps and the like.
I think we could agree that people that have some DE experience are better drives for it and would be more likely to avoid or mitigate a street accident. This is the rub with DE. You want people to do it and making them change their car in order to do this might dissuade some from driving and learning with us. I as tech chair have had to thumb down some setups that I felt would not work well. I have also advised some drivers to make some adjustments such as crossing the straps and the like.
That was the reason for my going off on a rant. There is WAAAY more nuance to this stuff than most people can derive on their own, and quite often there are unintended consequences that are far worse than the ill that the rule or remedy was intended to solve!
As I said, I am not overly enthused about stock seats and harnesses, but I will not go so far as to say that it is without merit and should be banned. I tend to feel that it falls into the realm of personal exceptance of risk, so long as the risk was accepted with knowledge and understanding.
11-07-2005, 02:05 PM
#124
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Originally Posted by mitch236
Seriously, what is the thinking on having a student show up with a seat with lateral head restraints when the passenger seat has none?
I think the consensus on H&N systems was that they fell under the heading of personal choice, and that they were not part of the "equal restraint" clause we live under. That is probably as it should be. I see the question of halos the same way. I myself have only one, on my seat. I have considered the other seat in this regard, but have not as yet made any moves in that direction.
At this point, I would label halos as "free."
