Hey, can you guys help me out with what a decnt time around Barber would be with a C-stock 996? The only mods I have are PSS9s and Fikse wheels. Thanks again guys (and gals)

 

You could try doing a search of Grand-Am Cup GS class to see where the fastest 996's are running there. Then add a second or so for what would be a decent C stock 996 time. I would say 1:38's would be pretty good qualifying time for that car in a club race.

 

Look at the results on the PCA website from 2004. Best times in C were 1:41.5 in qualifying in a 993 RS. Good conditions for that weekend. Race times were not any faster for the leaders.

 

The Grand-Am Cup 996's are relatively stock except for Motec computer and a few other little tricks. I think they were running around 3000 lbs. there last time, and the fastest 996's were doing 1:37's. That is pretty quick, but of coarse the drivers aren't too shabby either. I would think a well prepped C stock 996 with the X51 package would have the same if not greater potential at 2910 lbs. on Hoosier DOT's.

 

Given the same driver, a C stock PCA 996 should be faster than a GAC car. GAC gets Motec but we get X51. GAC has to run 275 Hoosiers in back. The PCA cars are on either 285s or 305s. GAC cars have a minimum ride height restriction that PCA does not. I think theirs is 4 inches. Our cars are much lower. As mentioned, they carry more weight.

Having said that. With your modifications, I would think you would be happy to be in the 1:45 - 1:50 range.
Jim

 

Jim, what's your take on the 993 RSCS vs. X51 996 in C class ? Is the 993 still the car to beat ?

 

They both have advantages. I think the 996 has a better chassis and, potentially, better suspension. It has better aerodynamics and more horsepower.

The 993 RSCS is lighter, has better brakes and much better gearing.

At Road America I ran quite a bit with a very fast true euro RSCS. He was faster coming off corners (gears/weight) but I would pull him by a couple of car lengths on the last half of long straights. I also think I could carry more speed through corners (suspension) but that might be wishful thinking. I won the sprint, he won the enduro. Go figure.

With equal drivers I would say the 996 will win every time in qualifying. In close racing the 993's weight, brakes and gearing will prevail.

I think the answer will come in the next year or so as more X51s show up. There are other fast C cars. In the right hands a 993TT is fast and so are the progressed RSAs.

How is that for a wishy-washy answer.
Jim

 

I think Jim's car is faster given equal drivers. 345hp and 2910lbs for the 996 vs. 300hp and 2800lbs for the 993RSCS.

 

But Greg, that would mean that I'm a crappy driver since I lose on a regular basis. Actually I'd guess the horsepower is probably closer in reality than on paper. I suspect the RSCS numbers are pretty conservative. And as I mentioned before, in real life racing the braking and gearing of the 993 is much better. I'd love to take a couple laps in one sometime. It's an amazing car.
Jim

 

Jim,

I think you are correct that the performance is more track dependent than I give it credit for. Either way my car is just outclassed by both of those since I had to add the weight back in.

 

I have heard from several folks that Barber doesn't let most cars completely stretch its legs (hp-wise) and greatly rewards/penalizes based on carrying speed (I would think that more reflects weight & grip than power).

The first year (2003) that Al. Region SCCA hosted an event there (and I am pretty sure it was one of two visits for SCCA Club Racing), the fastest ITS cars were in the 43s and the ITA cars were in the 46s if that gives you any reference point. The following year, the ITS cars were in the 45s and the ITA cars were still in the 46s ( S&A ran in the same race group ). It might mean that its a track that gives up a fair amount based on conditions and w/ greater car weights, the greater the impact on lap times. Just thinkin' BTW, you can do a search on MyLaps.com for Barber to do some more time perusing.

It could also be that they didn't have a lot of seat-time there (figure 10 minute practice, 15 minute quali, 14-20 lap race) and it has nothing to do w/ grip and weight.

 

But we know how to fix that don't we? All it takes is money. You've got to love a rule that says to remove weight you must first add HP.

 

Right! The car is still in my garage but it will be gone in the next couple weeks to a new home on the west coast. Most likely be on the POC racing circuit.

Not sure what I am going to do for a replacement. My mind is swimming with possibilities. My wife is dreaming of a new kitchen!

 

Hmmm.... Kitchen or cup car? Kitchen or cup car? Tough call Greg but I think you should go with the cup car. Just don't tell your wife it was my idea.
Jim

 

Greg, go chase a SRF crown and buy granite laminate instead of the real thing.