GM steals and cheats....
10-18-2005, 06:36 PM
#47
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Greg, I'm fairly certain that it will be the case for SWC, but I'm not sure about Grand Am. If they allow sequential gearboxes for Porsche in SWC then they'll probably allow them for all of the makes, and probably add weight to the cars that have them.
Speaking of the rules, mods, etc., Alwyn Springer came over to see my car and check out the brake ducts, as PMNA is apparently looking to provide a "factory" solution. He apparently had been talking about it and SCCA told him that 3R already had a solution. Unfortunately I was at lunch at the time and missed meeting him, but having him check out my car is cool in itself.
On a related celebrity note, Randy Pobst drove my car on the Thursday test day. We had hoped to get some good baselline data for the car so I'd have a target to shoot for, but the session was red-flagged due to a Corvette that caught fire, so he only got one lap in. His comments were that the car was well set up, and "I could win in this car!" With a true pro like him making comments like that, my confidence in the car's abilities was even higher.
Since I'm rambling all over the place, I'll add some more fuel to the GM fire. I've owned a few GM's over the years, mostly pickup trucks and SUVs, including my current GMC 2500HD tow vehicle. None of them were perfect, they all had the low-rent GM interiors, and I've never been amazed or particularly inspired by them. However, they've been reasonably reliable and the dealers have always treated me well enough, to the point where I'd certainly consider another one to replace this one someday.
In contrast, most Porsches have amazed me, and I've been especially inspired by a few of them. I've been in love with these cars since I was a little kid, and I still feel a rush when I see one, the RS Spyder being the latest just last weekend. But, I had the most miserable ownership experience of my life last year with a 997S, and I'll never buy another new Porsche again as a result. I would have been pissed off at being treated like that had it been a GM, hell, I'd have been pissed off if it had been a freaking Kia! Porsche has it's own share of arrogant bastards, and could learn a thing or two from GM in terms of how to treat a customer. Stupid #@%*&^$! idiots.
Speaking of the rules, mods, etc., Alwyn Springer came over to see my car and check out the brake ducts, as PMNA is apparently looking to provide a "factory" solution. He apparently had been talking about it and SCCA told him that 3R already had a solution. Unfortunately I was at lunch at the time and missed meeting him, but having him check out my car is cool in itself.
On a related celebrity note, Randy Pobst drove my car on the Thursday test day. We had hoped to get some good baselline data for the car so I'd have a target to shoot for, but the session was red-flagged due to a Corvette that caught fire, so he only got one lap in. His comments were that the car was well set up, and "I could win in this car!" With a true pro like him making comments like that, my confidence in the car's abilities was even higher.
Since I'm rambling all over the place, I'll add some more fuel to the GM fire. I've owned a few GM's over the years, mostly pickup trucks and SUVs, including my current GMC 2500HD tow vehicle. None of them were perfect, they all had the low-rent GM interiors, and I've never been amazed or particularly inspired by them. However, they've been reasonably reliable and the dealers have always treated me well enough, to the point where I'd certainly consider another one to replace this one someday.
In contrast, most Porsches have amazed me, and I've been especially inspired by a few of them. I've been in love with these cars since I was a little kid, and I still feel a rush when I see one, the RS Spyder being the latest just last weekend. But, I had the most miserable ownership experience of my life last year with a 997S, and I'll never buy another new Porsche again as a result. I would have been pissed off at being treated like that had it been a GM, hell, I'd have been pissed off if it had been a freaking Kia! Porsche has it's own share of arrogant bastards, and could learn a thing or two from GM in terms of how to treat a customer. Stupid #@%*&^$! idiots.
10-18-2005, 07:11 PM
#48
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SCCA is allowing the Mazda 6 touring car to use the X-Trac sequential gearbox, so I don't see why they wouldn't let a factory gearbox be used in the 997. All you have to do is ask for it.
To keep this on topic - I was sitting above turn 2 for the GT race. After the Woodhouse / McCann / Davis mess on lap 2 there was a lot of sand on the outside of turn 2, anybody who got out there had a hard time accelerating, there was a lot of front to rear contact from a lot of cars, not all of which you saw on TV.
I wasn't happy they extended the 2nd caution, but what can you do with live TV? They could have gone green 2 laps earlier but waited for TV to come back from a commercial break, probably a "Texas Longtails" promo.
Now - who's going to Infineon Nextel cup weekend in '06?
To keep this on topic - I was sitting above turn 2 for the GT race. After the Woodhouse / McCann / Davis mess on lap 2 there was a lot of sand on the outside of turn 2, anybody who got out there had a hard time accelerating, there was a lot of front to rear contact from a lot of cars, not all of which you saw on TV.
I wasn't happy they extended the 2nd caution, but what can you do with live TV? They could have gone green 2 laps earlier but waited for TV to come back from a commercial break, probably a "Texas Longtails" promo.
Now - who's going to Infineon Nextel cup weekend in '06?
10-18-2005, 09:40 PM
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Regarding the sequential gearbox, etc., the folks I was talking to seemed certain that it wouldn't be allowed next year, and the PMNA folks were looking into a solution. I'm not against it, and would expect that it becomes legal at some point.
On the topic of sand, it did make the track quite slick, as bad as oil or water. I watched cars sliding around all weekend long due to the sand, and it may have been a factor in my own spin at turn 5. That being said, I got advice from Tommy Archer before the race to "drive consistently and adapt to the conditions, and you'll pass those who can't handle it." Good advice, and I was almost able to follow it...
The extended caution was irritating, and the caution laps themselves were quite painful at times. What you may have heard about is how Wolf Henzler slowed the field down to 20 MPH, causing jumped starts, etc. What you didn't see is the mayhem that he caused by jamming the field up behind him, with several near misses as cars simply weren't expecting to slow down like that. Technically it's his right to do so, but frankly I think he was being an ***, and he should have not dropped below 40 MPH or so. What's funny is that in the Denver Grand Prix he took off like a rocket after the pace car pulled off, with he and Liddell going all out well before the green.
I'll definitely be at a few races next year, and perhaps a full season. If I have to choose a few events then Infineon will be at the top of my list.
On the topic of sand, it did make the track quite slick, as bad as oil or water. I watched cars sliding around all weekend long due to the sand, and it may have been a factor in my own spin at turn 5. That being said, I got advice from Tommy Archer before the race to "drive consistently and adapt to the conditions, and you'll pass those who can't handle it." Good advice, and I was almost able to follow it...
The extended caution was irritating, and the caution laps themselves were quite painful at times. What you may have heard about is how Wolf Henzler slowed the field down to 20 MPH, causing jumped starts, etc. What you didn't see is the mayhem that he caused by jamming the field up behind him, with several near misses as cars simply weren't expecting to slow down like that. Technically it's his right to do so, but frankly I think he was being an ***, and he should have not dropped below 40 MPH or so. What's funny is that in the Denver Grand Prix he took off like a rocket after the pace car pulled off, with he and Liddell going all out well before the green.
I'll definitely be at a few races next year, and perhaps a full season. If I have to choose a few events then Infineon will be at the top of my list.
10-20-2005, 10:56 PM
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The SCCA thread regarding this race is great reading. There is input from several WC drivers and a representative from the SCCA. It certainly helped me put this race to rest and look forward to the next season of racing.
http://bbs.sccaproracing.com/cgi-bin...c;f=2;t=003888
http://bbs.sccaproracing.com/cgi-bin...c;f=2;t=003888
10-30-2005, 10:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Rolo
They way they sent back markers from cheesy vette teams to take our the Porsches is embarrassing. It was intentional and planned. That should be ashamed
Wow. I am impressed. "cheesy Vette Teams"??
First let me preface this by pointing out that I have had more Porsche cars than most of you on this forum, so I have earned the right to post as well as defend myself. In addition, I probably owned one before some of you were born. 1969.
Having said that, I will first say that I build a very Non Cheesy Vette in a very non cheesy series that out qualified the Porsche contingent on 4 occasions. And in fact, 36% of the time. I was on the front row qualifying. And my cars won 2 races beating the Porsche cars to the cheesy finish.
Here is the last post I put up after reading all the "experts" who were not at the race, nor in a race car nor did they see the green flag like I did. The flag was waving clearly on my right as well as on the starter stand when I accelerated. first read my post then you can have at it.
I am proud of my racing accomplishments and I will be back in 2006 in the World Challenge. I race for Myself, not any other interest. I have 20 wins and 3 championships in the World Challenge series and I plan on more of both. I hope we didn't scare off the Porsche teams.
Thanks for your unbiased assesment of the facts on the last 4 pages.
Lou Gigliotti LG Motorsports Lou@LGMotorsports.com
feel free to call me at 972-429-1963 if you would like to talk to me directly.
Posted response below:--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi guys,
I have read about every thread out there and I must say that there are some real experts taking time from their jobs at 7/11 to make conclusions that are wrong.
I just want to point out that you should look at the complete video and you might be able to put these theories to rest.
You will notice that on the restart where I took the lead, Max Papis was on the outside of me in turn 2 (first turn). If there were any agreement between LG and Caddy, I would have slowed and let Papis pass on the outside while holding up Wolfe. But when you recheck the tape you will see that Papis hits my right rear while Wolfe cuts to the inside and retakes 2nd place. Papis gets moved back to 4th behind the McCann viper.
I think all the couch critics need to get real here and notice that the most damage to the Porsche effort came when Liddell's Porsche takes out Wolfe's team mate. That took out two of the top Porsches. And by your logic, Liddell was working for Cadillac also.
Then on the last restart, the Viper of Archer rubbed Wolfe's right rear tire to cause the flat tire. So Archer must be working for Cadillac also. Yes, there was some rubbing in that restart action but they were racing for a championship, not a regional trophy. Also keep in mind that Wolfe has done his share of rubbing this season. Wolfe was the one who turned left into Angelelli after Archer rubbed him.
So if you then look at my second restart when I was leading, the Porsche took the outside line, just like Papis did only this time Papis was where the Porsche was on the previous restart. Papis did exactly what the Porsche did the start before, and he turned in and made the pass. The traction was not as good, so I lost the lead to Papis.
Everyone has an opinion but I know what happened. I never made contact with anyone. No one told Wolfe to try the outside pass in that corner. It can not be done, and anyone who has raced there very often knows that. In fact Wolfe himself saw how easy it is to turn in and pass from the previous restart when he repassed Papis.
Only those of you who have raced at Laguna after the motorcycle curb changes will know how dusty and slippery the track gets now. so please don't come to conclusions based upon TV announcers speculations.
As for the restart that got me the black flag, the only black flag should have gone to Wolfe for the brake checking the whole field. This is clearly against the rules. No replay was necessary because everyone saw what he did. I am sure that he was given some leway because a black flag against Wolfe would have looked like scca was trying to affect the outcome, which they were not. Every drivers meeting they state that the leader "Must maintain the speed of the pace car and make NO sudden movements or you will be black flagged". There was no mystery here. Wolfe made his own mistake.
What is...is, and it can not be changed. All the speculation is just that.... speculation.
And to those who want a pure race, then tell the SCCA to remove the restrictor plates from the Corvettes and the Porsche will not be in sight.
Have a nice day. Plus, in 100 years it won't matter.
LG
10-30-2005, 11:47 PM
#52
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Originally Posted by Lou Gigliotti
Wow. I am impressed. "cheesy Vette Teams"??
First let me preface this by pointing out that I have had more Porsche cars than most of you on this forum, so I have earned the right to post as well as defend myself. In addition, I probably owned one before some of you were born. 1969.
Having said that, I will first say that I build a very Non Cheesy Vette in a very non cheesy series that out qualified the Porsche contingent on 4 occasions. And in fact, 36% of the time. I was on the front row qualifying. And my cars won 2 races beating the Porsche cars to the cheesy finish.
Here is the last post I put up after reading all the "experts" who were not at the race, nor in a race car nor did they see the green flag like I did. The flag was waving clearly on my right as well as on the starter stand when I accelerated. first read my post then you can have at it.
I am proud of my racing accomplishments and I will be back in 2006 in the World Challenge. I race for Myself, not any other interest. I have 20 wins and 3 championships in the World Challenge series and I plan on more of both. I hope we didn't scare off the Porsche teams.
Thanks for your unbiased assesment of the facts on the last 4 pages.
Lou Gigliotti LG Motorsports Lou@LGMotorsports.com
feel free to call me at 972-429-1963 if you would like to talk to me directly.
Posted response below:--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi guys,
I have read about every thread out there and I must say that there are some real experts taking time from their jobs at 7/11 to make conclusions that are wrong.
I just want to point out that you should look at the complete video and you might be able to put these theories to rest.
You will notice that on the restart where I took the lead, Max Papis was on the outside of me in turn 2 (first turn). If there were any agreement between LG and Caddy, I would have slowed and let Papis pass on the outside while holding up Wolfe. But when you recheck the tape you will see that Papis hits my right rear while Wolfe cuts to the inside and retakes 2nd place. Papis gets moved back to 4th behind the McCann viper.
I think all the couch critics need to get real here and notice that the most damage to the Porsche effort came when Liddell's Porsche takes out Wolfe's team mate. That took out two of the top Porsches. And by your logic, Liddell was working for Cadillac also.
Then on the last restart, the Viper of Archer rubbed Wolfe's right rear tire to cause the flat tire. So Archer must be working for Cadillac also. Yes, there was some rubbing in that restart action but they were racing for a championship, not a regional trophy. Also keep in mind that Wolfe has done his share of rubbing this season. Wolfe was the one who turned left into Angelelli after Archer rubbed him.
So if you then look at my second restart when I was leading, the Porsche took the outside line, just like Papis did only this time Papis was where the Porsche was on the previous restart. Papis did exactly what the Porsche did the start before, and he turned in and made the pass. The traction was not as good, so I lost the lead to Papis.
Everyone has an opinion but I know what happened. I never made contact with anyone. No one told Wolfe to try the outside pass in that corner. It can not be done, and anyone who has raced there very often knows that. In fact Wolfe himself saw how easy it is to turn in and pass from the previous restart when he repassed Papis.
Only those of you who have raced at Laguna after the motorcycle curb changes will know how dusty and slippery the track gets now. so please don't come to conclusions based upon TV announcers speculations.
As for the restart that got me the black flag, the only black flag should have gone to Wolfe for the brake checking the whole field. This is clearly against the rules. No replay was necessary because everyone saw what he did. I am sure that he was given some leway because a black flag against Wolfe would have looked like scca was trying to affect the outcome, which they were not. Every drivers meeting they state that the leader "Must maintain the speed of the pace car and make NO sudden movements or you will be black flagged". There was no mystery here. Wolfe made his own mistake.
What is...is, and it can not be changed. All the speculation is just that.... speculation.
And to those who want a pure race, then tell the SCCA to remove the restrictor plates from the Corvettes and the Porsche will not be in sight.
Have a nice day. Plus, in 100 years it won't matter.
LG
First let me preface this by pointing out that I have had more Porsche cars than most of you on this forum, so I have earned the right to post as well as defend myself. In addition, I probably owned one before some of you were born. 1969.
Having said that, I will first say that I build a very Non Cheesy Vette in a very non cheesy series that out qualified the Porsche contingent on 4 occasions. And in fact, 36% of the time. I was on the front row qualifying. And my cars won 2 races beating the Porsche cars to the cheesy finish.
Here is the last post I put up after reading all the "experts" who were not at the race, nor in a race car nor did they see the green flag like I did. The flag was waving clearly on my right as well as on the starter stand when I accelerated. first read my post then you can have at it.
I am proud of my racing accomplishments and I will be back in 2006 in the World Challenge. I race for Myself, not any other interest. I have 20 wins and 3 championships in the World Challenge series and I plan on more of both. I hope we didn't scare off the Porsche teams.
Thanks for your unbiased assesment of the facts on the last 4 pages.
Lou Gigliotti LG Motorsports Lou@LGMotorsports.com
feel free to call me at 972-429-1963 if you would like to talk to me directly.
Posted response below:--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi guys,
I have read about every thread out there and I must say that there are some real experts taking time from their jobs at 7/11 to make conclusions that are wrong.
I just want to point out that you should look at the complete video and you might be able to put these theories to rest.
You will notice that on the restart where I took the lead, Max Papis was on the outside of me in turn 2 (first turn). If there were any agreement between LG and Caddy, I would have slowed and let Papis pass on the outside while holding up Wolfe. But when you recheck the tape you will see that Papis hits my right rear while Wolfe cuts to the inside and retakes 2nd place. Papis gets moved back to 4th behind the McCann viper.
I think all the couch critics need to get real here and notice that the most damage to the Porsche effort came when Liddell's Porsche takes out Wolfe's team mate. That took out two of the top Porsches. And by your logic, Liddell was working for Cadillac also.
Then on the last restart, the Viper of Archer rubbed Wolfe's right rear tire to cause the flat tire. So Archer must be working for Cadillac also. Yes, there was some rubbing in that restart action but they were racing for a championship, not a regional trophy. Also keep in mind that Wolfe has done his share of rubbing this season. Wolfe was the one who turned left into Angelelli after Archer rubbed him.
So if you then look at my second restart when I was leading, the Porsche took the outside line, just like Papis did only this time Papis was where the Porsche was on the previous restart. Papis did exactly what the Porsche did the start before, and he turned in and made the pass. The traction was not as good, so I lost the lead to Papis.
Everyone has an opinion but I know what happened. I never made contact with anyone. No one told Wolfe to try the outside pass in that corner. It can not be done, and anyone who has raced there very often knows that. In fact Wolfe himself saw how easy it is to turn in and pass from the previous restart when he repassed Papis.
Only those of you who have raced at Laguna after the motorcycle curb changes will know how dusty and slippery the track gets now. so please don't come to conclusions based upon TV announcers speculations.
As for the restart that got me the black flag, the only black flag should have gone to Wolfe for the brake checking the whole field. This is clearly against the rules. No replay was necessary because everyone saw what he did. I am sure that he was given some leway because a black flag against Wolfe would have looked like scca was trying to affect the outcome, which they were not. Every drivers meeting they state that the leader "Must maintain the speed of the pace car and make NO sudden movements or you will be black flagged". There was no mystery here. Wolfe made his own mistake.
What is...is, and it can not be changed. All the speculation is just that.... speculation.
And to those who want a pure race, then tell the SCCA to remove the restrictor plates from the Corvettes and the Porsche will not be in sight.
Have a nice day. Plus, in 100 years it won't matter.
LG
I didn't mean to upset you. And I think my orginal post was to strong. Especialy after reading more about the race. I didn't mean you're cheesy. I'm just not a vette fan. It sure seemed Chevy and Caddy had a little plan together. But you're a great driver. I like watching you. Just wish you drove a Porsche.......what are the chances of getting a ride at Road Atlanta next season?????
And good luck
10-31-2005, 12:58 AM
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Rolo
Glad you didn't mean LG is cheesy. You just mean't all other Corvette drivers huh? If you didn't notice my sig yet please take notice. This thread STILL pisses me off. I have also owned a few p-cars and I am not a PC guy(that's politically correct -if your not sure what some GM driving yahoo thinks it means) but you knew that I was offended from the start and now this lame- as$ apology of yours....only after one of the principals called you out...it's not cool.
Glad you didn't mean LG is cheesy. You just mean't all other Corvette drivers huh? If you didn't notice my sig yet please take notice. This thread STILL pisses me off. I have also owned a few p-cars and I am not a PC guy(that's politically correct -if your not sure what some GM driving yahoo thinks it means) but you knew that I was offended from the start and now this lame- as$ apology of yours....only after one of the principals called you out...it's not cool.
10-31-2005, 01:09 AM
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Seeg, and Rolo,
Thanks for the replys. I am just as addicted as the next guy, in fact I have been addicted for over 30 years. And I love every minute of it.
Wolfe and I became friends this year. We talked after the race, and we will probably patch things up for 2006. racing is very emotional and we all put everything we have into it. Wolfe will be racing for years to come, since he is only in his 30s. I will probably hang up the helmet in a few years and try to figure out how to cure my addiction.
Life is short. I heard one the other day: "Life is like a roll of toilet paper, the closer it gets to the end, the faster it goes." So Race hard.
Thanks,
Lou G
Thanks for the replys. I am just as addicted as the next guy, in fact I have been addicted for over 30 years. And I love every minute of it.
Wolfe and I became friends this year. We talked after the race, and we will probably patch things up for 2006. racing is very emotional and we all put everything we have into it. Wolfe will be racing for years to come, since he is only in his 30s. I will probably hang up the helmet in a few years and try to figure out how to cure my addiction.
Life is short. I heard one the other day: "Life is like a roll of toilet paper, the closer it gets to the end, the faster it goes." So Race hard.
Thanks,
Lou G
10-31-2005, 01:26 AM
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Lou,
I owe you a thanks for the use of your video from the Mid-Ohio race.
http://www.lgmracing.com/ I watched it many times as prep for my first trip to the Runoffs this past september.Thanks.
I owe you a thanks for the use of your video from the Mid-Ohio race.
http://www.lgmracing.com/ I watched it many times as prep for my first trip to the Runoffs this past september.Thanks.
10-31-2005, 01:34 AM
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Not really having to do with this thread...I have the race taped and will watch it soon (only got to see part of it when it aired) but what I wanted to comment about was that I think it's cool that renowned racers read/post to the Rennlist. Pretty freakin' sweet!
Also cool is that Randy Pobst drove someone's personal ride. I know that car setup is a personal thing but I've always wondered how "good" (or not) mine is for what I do with it (and hope to get doing again)...street and DE driving (maybe even autocrossing if I get to it)...I'm almost back to having the funds to do DEing again but I have WAAAY to little money to consider racing.
Also cool is that Randy Pobst drove someone's personal ride. I know that car setup is a personal thing but I've always wondered how "good" (or not) mine is for what I do with it (and hope to get doing again)...street and DE driving (maybe even autocrossing if I get to it)...I'm almost back to having the funds to do DEing again but I have WAAAY to little money to consider racing.
10-31-2005, 10:07 AM
#58
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Now all we need to do is figure out how to get them to post good stuff here without pissing them off first...
Thanks for the post LG. I still have the race on the TEVO and will go back and look at it again with your coments in mind.
Thanks for the post LG. I still have the race on the TEVO and will go back and look at it again with your coments in mind.
10-31-2005, 10:15 AM
#59
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Originally Posted by seege
Rolo
Glad you didn't mean LG is cheesy. You just mean't all other Corvette drivers huh? If you didn't notice my sig yet please take notice. This thread STILL pisses me off. I have also owned a few p-cars and I am not a PC guy(that's politically correct -if your not sure what some GM driving yahoo thinks it means) but you knew that I was offended from the start and now this lame- as$ apology of yours....only after one of the principals called you out...it's not cool.
Glad you didn't mean LG is cheesy. You just mean't all other Corvette drivers huh? If you didn't notice my sig yet please take notice. This thread STILL pisses me off. I have also owned a few p-cars and I am not a PC guy(that's politically correct -if your not sure what some GM driving yahoo thinks it means) but you knew that I was offended from the start and now this lame- as$ apology of yours....only after one of the principals called you out...it's not cool.
Geez fella,...I'm talking about cars...not your family. Get over it
btw, whevere sharing opinions, someone will always disagree, but no need in getting your feelings hurt
and it is cool to be call out by LG....LG for goodness sake
10-31-2005, 11:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Rolo
Geez fella,...I'm talking about cars...not your family. Get over it
btw, whevere sharing opinions, someone will always disagree, but no need in getting your feelings hurt
and it is cool to be call out by LG....LG for goodness sake
btw, whevere sharing opinions, someone will always disagree, but no need in getting your feelings hurt
and it is cool to be call out by LG....LG for goodness sake
This is exactly the response I would expect from a guy that starts a thread called "GM Cheats and Steals". You should add "Little Yellow Bus" to that lengthy signature inventory of yours.Just talkin' cars here fella...get over it.