dave morris

I did several searches ... and got nothing useful. Is there a preferred harness to use with the HANS device? What is the 2" vs 3" issue? Is the 2" harness acceptable under CR rules? Thanks in advance.

JCP911S

2" belts are a proposed rule change in PCA for 2006, and will probably be adopted, but I wouldn't spend any $$$ until I was sure.

HANS says 3" harnesses work fine. I overlap mine about 1/2 inch on either side of the collar and then cinch them down... they wrap around either side. I have had no slippage problems

dave morris

Sorry for the stupid question, but if the 2" shoulder strap is better when using the HANS, am I correct in assuming that no one is using it yet in CR because it hasn't yet been approved? So everyone is using 3"? If that is the case, how was it determined that 2" is better? People don't switch back and forth from 3" to 2" ... DE and CR. Told you it was a stupid question.

Also, is there some reason Schroth might be preferred over others?

ltc

I think that JCP911S was referring to lap belts. Currently, 2" belts are not allowed by PCA Club Racing, unless used in a Cup car, since they are factory equipment (other sanctioning bodies currently allow 2" lap belts).
2" lap belts, apart from being more comfortable, are supposed to provide better lower torso/body control during impact. This was discussed almost a year ago in a post discussing a Tom Gideon (of GM Racing) discussion on safety equipment/design.

As for shoulder belts and HANS, this has gone full circle and may be spinning around one more time.

Initially, Schroth developed the 2-3" HANS specific shoulder belts/harnesses to help prevent the issue of HANS belt slippage (controversial, since some experience it while others don't appear to).
Interesting to note that cars equipped with these 2-3" shoulder belts REQUIRE you to use a HANS at all times; you can not run 2" shoulder belts, except with a HANS.
The latest output from HANS et. al. is that 3" shoulder belts are fine (the HANS design has changed yet again) and that a little overlap (belt to HANS) is just fine. Take it at face value from Hubbard and Downing....lots more info in this forum as well as the HANS website.
There is also a new dual/quad shoulder belt design out there.....2 shoulder belts per side (4 total)....one set to hold the driver and a second set to hold the HANS over the driver. This has been photographed once or twice in this forum recently.

Schroth is a well made harness, well respected, has all the homologations you would likley need. There are others, Simpson/Impact, Teamtech, Deist, etc.

FWIW, I have a set of Schroth Titanium 6 point Hybrid II's which I have been extremely happy with this season. The Hybrid lap belt mounting system is extremely comfortable and I do like the 2" lap betls better.

dave morris

Thanks Lewis. That's very helpful. I had read a lot about this subject in the past, but until I decided to get the HANS, I wasn't paying enough attention. Then when I did the search ... using every kind of input I could think of ... nothing really useful came up. For some reason I can't explain. Anyway, thanks again. Sounds like the specific belt/harness used is not really a critical issue.

rockitman

I bought a Schroth Profi lll 6pt. with 3" belts for my Hans. I definatley think there is a better fit advantage with the 2" shoulder belts....no overlap and they will fill the contours of the device better, rather than having some overlap over the sides by your shoulders with the 3" straps. I am going to run the straps in cross over (X) configuration on my roll bar to ensure that the Hans stays put...

dave morris

Rockitman,
I'm certainly not an expert when it comes to HANS, but the cross over thing doesn't sound like a good idea to me. I would think there is every reason to make sure the shoulder straps go straight back to the roll-bar.

ltc

Please refer to pages 20-23:
http://www.schroth.com/installation-.../en/index.html
There's lots of other information/recommendations as well regarding harness mounting/routing, etc

rockitman

I wish it was that easy. Factors that come into play are the width of the seat back holes, ect. According to Hans Literature, the space between the two straps on the roll bar cannot exceed 3". If you go straight back, it's more like 6" w/ Recaro GT3 seats and the straps don't wrap around by the shoulders as securely than when they are mounted next to each other, my current config or doing the X crossover....I think the most important thing is the angle of the straps where they go over your shoulders. you don't want a downward pulling motion when in a forward impact...any other insights ?

dave morris

Thanks again Lewis. I'll read the whole thing, but since my anchor points are at less than 20" behind the seatback, I guess I was right for my car. Maybe Rockitman's are more than 20".

RICHVIZZ951

This was my 2nd season with the Hans, so I have the 1st generation Hans (I believe). I use 3 inch belts and never experienced the issue some say they do. My belts could use replacing so I just paid Big for the Shroth Hans Hybrid III 6 pointers. The shoulders are 3-2's, laps are 3's. When I ordered them I was told they are PCA Club Racing legal. Is that not the case? Please say it isnt so.

rockitman

no, my anchor points are less than three inches from the seat back. GT3 seat with Porsche TE Rollbar so I have them close enough so that they touch the inside most verticle egde of each seat back hole. So the distance between the two seat back holes on each ones respective edge is a close as the straps will go at the shoulders with my type of seat in theory. I probably don't need the cross over. There is a gap of 1" between both of my straps on the harness bar. The important thing is to make sure they don't slide out of place. I used hose clamps on each side of the straps to prevent any movement, like the strap width widening due to strap slippage... which is bad with a Hans...

dave morris

Rockitman,

No, my insights are very limited. I'm simply proving I know next to nothing about anything having to do with HANS. I'm very glad you made your point, however, because I have the Recaro GT3 seat too. I'll be sure to read the operating instructions in their entirety. Thanks.

rockitman

I'm no expert either, just have a little experience since I installed the belts myself and have worn them at one track event so far with the Hans...Once you install them, it will become apparent what works best for your car and the belt mouting points...take care,
Chris

fatbillybob

I went to a seminar and posted about it here in Rennlist. Dr. Hubbard gave the lecture. I asked him specifically about the 2/3" belt issue. His reply was that Scroth is in the business of selling belts. Not his exact words but what I reemmber. And while scroth may have data that show some marginal improvement with 2" in Dr. H opinion there is and has never been and statistical advantage 2 over 3 and no tests to prove overwise. That's what I remember from the horses mouth about 6 months ago at a RacerShop in redondo beach ca. seminar. That said Scroth believes in the 2" lap belt and the 4 strap shoulder for HANS. Dr. H also said that if he was a racer he would personally use this set-up but that in real world tests 3" is fine and that is what HANS recommends. On that note I support Lewis's post as what he says is what I also beleive. I personally have the 2"laps with 4 shoulders and they work great but it is a pain to tighen because the HANS shoulders are mounted to the 3" body belts. So when you tighten the body you losen the HANS. Tighten the HANS you loosen the body. This is basically solved by making the force you can apply on the body much greater than what you can apply on the HANS by vurtue of how the belts are made. It is a little disconcerting to have tight body belt and then not so tight HANS belt but amazingly the HANS belts do not slip off and I feel very secure. It is just funny i your head because you always think tight ...tight...tight on all your belts then tight as you can on the HANS bet is basically loose. Also the mounting of the 4 shoulder system to the car is much more difficult and I'll post that picture here with my home made cage in a few days. The easiest solution IMO is to just go with 6 point hybrid with 2" hans belts and be done with it. We all want to be really safe but sometimes I kinda think we are thinking about it too much...and I am totally guilty of that just as Redlineman.