Z-man

That's exactly why I feel that autocross and car control clinics are helpful fo DE's! Counter steering is a learned process. You get lots of practise doing this at autocrosses - to the point where it becomes more instinctive.

While people may argue that there's very little carry over between the two disciplines of 'motorsport' that one similarity - driving the car over the edge a bit - can really really help save a car out on the big tracks!

My additional $0.42,
-Z.

pcar964

I've never thought much of autocross, but you make a good point - for someone like the driver in this video, gaining experience with car control at lower speeds in autocross would be a perfect way to improve his car control ability safely.

DanS911

I feel for the guy and we all know it could happen to us at any time.......but......

If you read the guys discription he says this is his third track event.........Third track event....no instructor.....car upside down.....seems about right

carreracup21

I agree. Slow lazy hands don't get you very far at the limit.

Geo

Yep.

What really gets me is he really doesn't have a grip on what really caused it.

RJay

Fully agree. One of the winningest guys in PCA Club Racing once said to me that one of, if not the best, learning experiences he ever had was hanging it out on a skid pad for a couple of hours. I think a lot of people make the mistake of thinking that just because the speed is somewhat reduced that AXing isnt of benefit. While I will admit I've grown weary of spending half a dozen hours to get a dozen mintues of seat time, there is no doubt that from a skills POV, it is time well spent (and wasted). These days I AX about a dozen times a year down from 35+ a few years ago, but I keep doing it because there is no doubt that its made me faster and, perhaps more importantly, the skills acquired directly from AXing have saved my butt big time on numerous occasions. Theres also no doubt that the tuning that one can do and the trust that develops between one and ones car also plays into the equation. Ask anyone of my friends who saw me on the cars first outing at the Glen in July and the lasts one at LRP or NHIS. Huge improvement, said they. Well, says I , driving the **** out of the car at enough AXs to be comfortable with the car is going to do is the reason why.

I don't care how smooth you are, how good your brake technique or shifting might be, if you can't anticipate sense whats going on and correct for it, know what the car is about to do and be ahead of it, you'll never be that fast and if you try to be, you'll probably wreck. Never be able to convince the old track junkies that never have done to give it a try (they're too scared to get there butts whomped) but if your a novice and you'd like to avoid personally making a video like the one being commented on here, do AX.

CHEERS944

Absolutely agree - from a novice's POV, the best thing I did was to autox before going out on the track. Slower speeds to learn the car & the worst thing I hit was a couple of cones!

Bull

To me, the issue isn't "does autoX help a new track driver or not". The issue is how MUCH does it help a new track driver, and how much does the new driver think he knows due to autoX. Some of the worst students I have instructed have started out telling me "i have never been on a track, but I have done a lot of autoX so don't worry".

Now Z, if you agree with me again, I'll shoot your tires out at WG......in 38 hours (but who is counting?)

Geo

While AX works for some it doesn't for others. I hated AX. I did it for a couple of years and that was more than enough for me. I've done all of one AX in the last 23 years and that was because it was a night AX and I had a bunch of firends over to the house that day so we all went and did the AX. It was cool because it was at night but otherwise, yuck. AX did pretty much nothing for me.

RedlineMan

Hmmmmph!

Third event? No instructor? Video? Naration? The poster boy for Clueless and Cast Adrift! Poor slob's fate was left to pure chance. Didn't work. NOW I feel sorta sorry for him. Ignorance aint bliss if you crush your roof.

While I don't care for autox that much either, and I would never say that a given thing works for everyone, in general, autox is excellent training. I have been a bit spoiled because when we had autox's around here they were usually on gokart tracks. No time wasted trying to figure out where the heck you were going, just like a real track. Parking lot runs are quite safe and getting a bit out of shape costs you nothing.

Good stuff. Wish I liked it more, cause it works!

RJay

Like John said, it doesn't work for everyone, but heres a data trace from an AX I did a week or two ago. I think what it shows is that you learn how to rapidly deal with weight xfer in the car. Max G pulled was ~1.3, top speed was ~69 MPH. The bottom line numbers are elapsed seconds. I dump the chart on you in elasped time form so you can see how fast the transitions from max (at least my max) lateral loading occurs. For me, it was and remains, invaluable training.

Geo

Yeah, just don't slide off the track.

The kart track where I used to race rented out to the SCCA once or twice a year. We had a car totalled when it slid off and the wheels dug in and it rolled. Apparently more than once.

38D

First, my read of this is very different. He basically went in too hot and lifted. He was a little early, but not devistatingly so. His hand were slow, but that's what you get in the lower run groups. I don't think he really missed his marks in the turns leading up to the uphill.

DrJupeman

My thoughts on this video is the commentary you hear (isn't there an instructor in the car? someone said here that there wasn't?). As he's tracking out of Big Bend you hear something to the effect of "ease off the throttle to let the tail come around". WTF, on track out? Get on the gas, Man!

pcar964

I was also wondering why this guy was driving solo after his third time, I don't know what club he was with, but remind me never to attend their track days!