PCA Rules Change Proposals on line
09-29-2005, 01:03 AM
#166
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I like the pump gas rule for stock classes too. If you are afraid of detonaton, then I guess you can't redline every shift or be into the boost as much as you want. You'll still have fun right?
How is forcing one to manage their motor any different then managing ones tires?
How is forcing one to manage their motor any different then managing ones tires?
09-29-2005, 07:36 AM
#167
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Originally Posted by Mike Buck
I like the pump gas rule for stock classes too. If you are afraid of detonaton, then I guess you can't redline every shift or be into the boost as much as you want. You'll still have fun right?
How is forcing one to manage their motor any different then managing ones tires?
How is forcing one to manage their motor any different then managing ones tires?
"Why don't you go racing, but don't floor it exiting turns." Not my idea of fun!
09-29-2005, 11:50 AM
#168
Race Director
Thread Starter
In an Ideal world stock classes would require cars to run on pump gas.
They would also require stock bushings (no solid metal bearing crap),
and
singe body shocks and ideally no fancy racing dampers
stock diameter and stock width wheels.
Stock cars would actually be stock.
Most well built stock cars that exists today would in "prepared".
Of course between prepared and GT would a place for prepared "lightweight" cars. Ie cars to build to preppred levels, but ligher than stock (no interior and possible a couple FG things here and there). GT would be the car builders dream class with some est power/weight factors to allow for semi fair classes.
Ahh... but who am I other than some poor peon.
They would also require stock bushings (no solid metal bearing crap),
and
singe body shocks and ideally no fancy racing dampers
stock diameter and stock width wheels.
Stock cars would actually be stock.
Most well built stock cars that exists today would in "prepared".
Of course between prepared and GT would a place for prepared "lightweight" cars. Ie cars to build to preppred levels, but ligher than stock (no interior and possible a couple FG things here and there). GT would be the car builders dream class with some est power/weight factors to allow for semi fair classes.
Ahh... but who am I other than some poor peon.
09-29-2005, 12:25 PM
#169
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Joe, that might sound ideal on the surface but all it'll take is one person to build a "perfect" car through Parts Bin B&B and you'll have an all-out arms race.
Don't think I can get a few more horsepower out of a 944 Turbo engine buy purchasing 20 sets of Pistons and finding the 4 lightest/closest in weight? What about injectors, purchase 20 and take the 4 that are the closest in actual spec. Shocks, even if you mandate stock shocks, there are manufacturing tolerances and purchasing on the correct side of that tolerance will yield a faster car. All these little things would make a HUGE difference in a truly stock class. They would also skyrocket costs. People would yell "cheater, cheater, cheater" just like they do now whenever a car is faster than them and you'd be in exactly the same boat. Only people would have spent more money to go slower.
Leave the rules alone, put in a protest mechanism with fines to weed out cheaters and go race. That'll solve 90% of the problems with PCA Club Racing.
On the other topic getting a lot of discussion...
GT is just that, GT, if you can't afford open class racing with very few restrictions, then its probably not the best place for you to race. I looked and couldn't find the word affordable or cheap anywhere in the PCA CR Rulebook. Nor did I find any guarantee of competitiveness in the GT classes. If you aren't competitive and you are racing GT, its time to make your car faster. If your car can't be made faster and you still want to win, its time to buy a different car. Harsh, but true.
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Brian Bailey
Autometrics Motorsports Porsche 996 - Grand-Am Cup #45
'87 Porsche 944 Turbo - PCA GT3s
Don't think I can get a few more horsepower out of a 944 Turbo engine buy purchasing 20 sets of Pistons and finding the 4 lightest/closest in weight? What about injectors, purchase 20 and take the 4 that are the closest in actual spec. Shocks, even if you mandate stock shocks, there are manufacturing tolerances and purchasing on the correct side of that tolerance will yield a faster car. All these little things would make a HUGE difference in a truly stock class. They would also skyrocket costs. People would yell "cheater, cheater, cheater" just like they do now whenever a car is faster than them and you'd be in exactly the same boat. Only people would have spent more money to go slower.
Leave the rules alone, put in a protest mechanism with fines to weed out cheaters and go race. That'll solve 90% of the problems with PCA Club Racing.
On the other topic getting a lot of discussion...
GT is just that, GT, if you can't afford open class racing with very few restrictions, then its probably not the best place for you to race. I looked and couldn't find the word affordable or cheap anywhere in the PCA CR Rulebook. Nor did I find any guarantee of competitiveness in the GT classes. If you aren't competitive and you are racing GT, its time to make your car faster. If your car can't be made faster and you still want to win, its time to buy a different car. Harsh, but true.
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Brian Bailey
Autometrics Motorsports Porsche 996 - Grand-Am Cup #45
'87 Porsche 944 Turbo - PCA GT3s
09-29-2005, 12:28 PM
#170
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Power to weight ratio based rules are entirely unenforceable given the technological complexity of some of the cars in the GT classes.
Are you planning to mandate boost levels for turbo cars in order to enforce the power to weight ratios or are you just going to let them run wild and win every race? If you try to mandate boost levels, how exactly are you going to inforce that short of data logging every turbocharged car in the GT field, and even then, do you really think you'll catch the guys that want to get around it? I'm not even sure you could effectively regulate the Normally Aspirated cars, especially the one's running sophisticated engine management with multiple maps.
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Brian Bailey
Autometrics Motorsports Porsche 996 - Grand-Am Cup #45
'87 Porsche 944 Turbo - PCA GT3s
Are you planning to mandate boost levels for turbo cars in order to enforce the power to weight ratios or are you just going to let them run wild and win every race? If you try to mandate boost levels, how exactly are you going to inforce that short of data logging every turbocharged car in the GT field, and even then, do you really think you'll catch the guys that want to get around it? I'm not even sure you could effectively regulate the Normally Aspirated cars, especially the one's running sophisticated engine management with multiple maps.
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Brian Bailey
Autometrics Motorsports Porsche 996 - Grand-Am Cup #45
'87 Porsche 944 Turbo - PCA GT3s
09-29-2005, 12:39 PM
#171
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M758
Have you considered selling your car and buying a car to run in the class you want to run in? Might be a simple way to accomplish your goal.
Have you considered selling your car and buying a car to run in the class you want to run in? Might be a simple way to accomplish your goal.
09-29-2005, 12:50 PM
#172
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Thread Starter
Originally Posted by Alan C.
M758
Have you considered selling your car and buying a car to run in the class you want to run in? Might be a simple way to accomplish your goal.
Have you considered selling your car and buying a car to run in the class you want to run in? Might be a simple way to accomplish your goal.
No not at all...
... I simply don't run many PCA races. It is that simple. I run my local club race each year to support my local club. Beyond that... why bother.
Seems clear to me that NOBODY in PCA Club racing is an innovative thinker.
Everyone talks about how you can't do this or that and that you simply can't make it any better.
Well I think that is load of crap. I think PCA Club Racing is ok. I do think it can be made much better than it is now. When I mean better I mean better serving the needs Porsche Racers and those that want to race Porsches in a Porsche only enviroment.
When club racing started what about 10 years ago it had some very basic goals. There was concern about it even taking off and being a success.
Well clearly club racing Porsches is quite popular and popular in Porsche only setting now I think things need to be adjusted to take it to the next level and make it even better.
