Kool

How long would they last with the more aggresive pad?

CurlyDE

I will be attending the October DE at CMP along with Kool. I noticed in this thread that Hawk and Pagid pads have been recommended, but which models do you guys think would be best for DE use? This is for a 951 and it will be my first DE.

Geza

15 track days + ~20K street miles.

BrokeAss

Vehicle weight is a BIG factor in that equation. Geza might get 15 days out of a set of pads, but in my 3,400lb 964 - I've gone through a set of Pagid Orange brake pads in only 5 days at Sebring!

Kool

Cool

Last question. I have BFG KDWS's on the Acura. Not the best track tire I know. Would I be stupiud to use those at this DE or does it really matter for my first time?

Adam Richman

Nah, you willl be fine on the stock tires. And Kershaw is not the "easy on tires" track it once was. So if the tire has some wear, it will probably chunk less than a brand new street tire. Besides, if the tire is lacking at all in grip, it will be a speed (or moreso, a brake) limiting function.

I would not worry about the RSX-S brakes too much, after all, compared to its other Hondacura brethren, thems some HUGE brakes IIRC, the GS-R's Fronts are the same size as the RSX-S rears. The front rotors are huge for an Acura (like 11.8" and they aren't thin either). Yes, CMP is a b*** on brakes but to put it in perspective, we ran a double test day at CMP in June on one set of PFCs and no ducting - 3 drivers going out pretty hard in every session (5 per day) and I could still run the brakes for a test day at Road Atlanta. Now "racing" at Kershaw ... whole different ballgame but you should not be seeing that kind of heat.

Worst case scenario, you will be replacing the pads and rotors when you get home but I would hope that your first time out, your instructor helps you keep the equipment under you (a tougher tast at Kershaw). Now if you want to change out pads and rotors, call Carbotech (www.carbotecheng.com) and Andie Lin (www.cobaltfriction.com) see what they suggest for you - both will have some good infromation for you on pad needs at kershaw in your car. If it were me, first time on track, I'd NOT change pads prior togoing but would have the change of pads with me. Also, although I always run ATE Superblue in the 944S, I run Motul RBF exclusively in the Honda (and did so in my Acura as well).

For your sake, I'll hope you get a chance to run a rain session at Kershaw in the RSX. The rain totally transforms CMP into one of the most fun FWD tracks around.

If this is Oct 8-9, we will be there w/ the CRX on Friday running test day. Was actually contemplating if I might contact CarolinasPCA and see if the need instructors (just stay since I am already down there).

Kool

It is for the Oct. 8-9 DE. I am currently first on the waiting list.

I need an instructor.

Last I heard they were still looking for instructors. Email Bob Saville naro@carolina.rr.com he is the registrar. I am sure he can tell you or point you in the right direction on who would know.

They are pretty large. I have gotten them to fade in the mountains before. I somehow warped the rear rotors at like 25000 miles. The dealership turned them and replaced all the pads and I had them warped again in 5000 miles. I replaced the rear rotors and they seem to be fine now.

Geza

15 days was for a set of rotors. I'd normally get about 5 days out of a set of race pads using the stock brakes. With the Stoptechs, I get 12+ days out of a set of race pads.

Adam Richman

Cool Kool, (that reads odd) I will drop him an email and see how they look for the weekend. Reading the other thread, I wonder if I would be able to instruct sans the Porchey - if so, I'll have to sit out unfortunately.

On the fade, that's likely just brake management (you could do it on my CL-S by driving through the paddock - luckily your car has a lot more brake for its weight IIRC - instruting one at VIR I thought the RSX-S brakes were excellent).

I'd call Matt N. at Carbotech (877-899-5024) and get his recommendation. Mine would be to go w/ their pads as they are a ceramic pad (vs. the very paint hungry Hawks which can definately hurt your car's paint and wheel finish). Tell him its your first time on track and first time to Kershaw (and remind him its your first time on track again after that last comment ). I'd think some Panther+ would do you super right (and you MAY fade them but that will just tell you to back off the pads). The nice thing about the P+ is that in a pinch, they are definately streetable (albeit any high friction pad can be audibly irritating). Also, you'd be smart to do a brake bleed prior if you never have before. If you have the dealer do such things, just take them 2 bottles of Motul RBF and ask them to bleed the system for you (you can get the Motul from ltbmotorsports.com - he sells it at a good price and usually ships things before you hear the click on the other end of the phone ).

If I can and it would work out, it would be my pleasure to instruct. No matter what, if you get there to unpack Friday and I cannot instruct, please drop by and say hello - it would be a green/black/silver CRX w/ the #42 on the side.

Take care and stay off them mountains

Kool

Adam

The SouthEast Region doesn't seem to care what you drive. They even have a place on their registration form non PCA members(the horror). Anyway, we havn't planned exactly when we will arrive but provided I get in I will defenitely make it a point to come by. If you do get in to instruct it would be pretty cool to have a fellow rennlister instruct. I wonder if we could request one another.

Drop me a PM and let me know what Bob says.

JCP911S

I'd say this is trure of any car doing DE.

1) Put in high temp racing fluid like Super Blue. This is $20 worth of ino-brainer insurance and it will work fine on the street as long as you remember to change it twice a year or so. Boiled fluid is #1 cause of brake loss.

2) Upgrade at least to a good street performenace pad. Stock pads (even on Porsches) are designed for totally different conditions and are not up to track driving.

3) Full race pads are best, but not necessary for a novice... also they will not work as well on the street and likely wear your rotors prematurely, so if you do full race pads, I'd change them at the track.

4) Buy a power bleeder, learn how to bleed your brakes, and bleed them at least once a day.

5) Make brake awareness a key part of your driving toolkit. Understand what they feel like when they get hot... how they respond and when they are getting to the limit... best way to avoid losing your brakes is getting into the pits before it happens.

Good luck

Kool

Got #4 covered.

I am calling Carbotech today to ask about pads. The rest I plan on learning at the track. As I don't really know a safer place to figure it out.

joseph mitro

just a note about matching brakes and tires. if you have awesome brakes but bad tires you'll be locking the wheels and flatspotting the tires the whole time. if you have great tires and poor brakes you won't be able to take advantage of the tires.

i used hawk hp+ in my bmw which i thought were pretty good for a compromise street/track (although not for full track). the metalmasters i have on the 944 are pretty bad - i can't even flatspot the yoko ES-100 tires that i have. but at least the pads and tires match in performance level.

phils87951

HP+ should take you from beginer to mid intermediat.
Once you hit the expert levels, you will probably switch to hawk blue.

In my case Hawk blues are marginal because i have the stock 87 951 rotors and calipers and im not known for dilly dallying on the track ( cmt)

question is do i want to fork over the 10K CDN for 2 sets of 17" mags and big reds. NOt quite ready yet

ceboyd

...don't forget about pagid black RS14 if you want more bite!!! (for advanced drivers)