Instructors: What do YOU do...?
08-29-2005, 08:39 PM
#46
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Nordy;
Very sage stuff, bordering on utterly fascinating. That is the stuff I was looking for. Danke, mein freund!
What I ran into was not so much a mechanical problem but a psychological one, methinks. Not that the guy is wacked. Far from it, he was keenly motivated, yet struggling to manage his inner demons AND the dynamics of traffic, cornering, ****-o-meter. Just too much. All this with 2 events in the last 12 months! All of my efforts at slowing down his mind DID pay dividends, but not before much toil had been visited upon us.
Very sage stuff, bordering on utterly fascinating. That is the stuff I was looking for. Danke, mein freund!
What I ran into was not so much a mechanical problem but a psychological one, methinks. Not that the guy is wacked. Far from it, he was keenly motivated, yet struggling to manage his inner demons AND the dynamics of traffic, cornering, ****-o-meter. Just too much. All this with 2 events in the last 12 months! All of my efforts at slowing down his mind DID pay dividends, but not before much toil had been visited upon us.
08-29-2005, 08:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Bob Rouleau
John - Keep the faith. We all run into someone who just doesn't get it from time to time. I also know that it helps to vent - which is the way I interpret your post. You know the answer - reduce the number of variables the student has to deal with (many good suggestions here on ways to do that) and stay patient. The latter is sometimes hard because the only reason most of us teach is the reward we get when the student "gets it". When they don't .. it is frustrating and quite unsatisfying. FWIW, the frustration level is almost always higher with the most experienced and seasoned instructors.
As Nord and others suggested, you need to get the guy comfortable. Could he possibly be as inconsistent on the street? Probably not. The difference is his comfort level - he's in the zone on the street but far from it on track. In my experience, the most common cause of inconsistent turn in, entry speeds etc. is lack of "vision". But you already knew that, so I'll shut up
Regards,
As Nord and others suggested, you need to get the guy comfortable. Could he possibly be as inconsistent on the street? Probably not. The difference is his comfort level - he's in the zone on the street but far from it on track. In my experience, the most common cause of inconsistent turn in, entry speeds etc. is lack of "vision". But you already knew that, so I'll shut up
Regards,
It WAS a vent. My frustration at not finding complete success with a guy that seemingly should have found it.
Not finding exactly the right key to unlock what we needed. Yet, knowing that there were too many locks to release them all. Just too many things, and too variable in their appearance on our stage. In the end I was left to just try and keep him under his competance pace so he could cement good subconscious habits.And I never even got to vision, as it occured to me reading your post. I just had my hands full trying to get him to be consistent, let alone prepared! If he had shown the consistency, and lost the hair-brained stuff like jamming the brake pedal at random intervals, I would have loved to start the 1-2-3 drill. Maybe that was the key I missed?
Merci, Mon Allie!
Last edited by RedlineMan; 08-29-2005 at 09:11 PM.
08-29-2005, 09:09 PM
#48
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Hey Guys;
RJay, Todd (WOW), e911 (GREAT story), Nordy (great read of a great story!), Arrwin (you're on the right track!)... everybody, GREAT STUFF. Delving into the psychology is what I was looking for because I know it was a mental thing at work here. Be it overload or blockage or whatever, it was in the mind that the battle was being fought.
I felt that I owed him a really good go, and it was successful. He really made great strides at the end of the second day, and did not backslide too dramaticaly after that. I hope that my ego did not get in the way of handing him to someone else when I might ought have. But Damn!... I was determined that the friggin fool git it, someofabitch!
FWIW - My reply to his note I posted earlier, and my entry in his driver log;
"Hi (___);
Well, another battle waged with no casualties! You have been my most challenging student to date. I have tried to understand just why I feel that way, and in the end it would seem that it might be the juxtaposition of your intelligence, positive attitude, and desire to learn contrasted against the difficulty you have in maintaining internal rhythm, concentration, and in discerning WHY a particular outcome was better than another. On the face of it, I perhaps thought you would have an easy time of it, but our endeavors prove two things clearly; performance driving is not easy, and everyone is different.
I think the key to further improvement is in getting a lot of seat time. You seem to need a lot of repetition in order to cement good habits. I think you may possess a very high subconscious desire to perform to a very high automatic level, and this may hinder your concentration by making you too keyed up when you run into challenges. Relaxation, and perhaps detailed visualization, may hold the keys to further success as the gains get smaller and are harder to grasp and attain.
So too do you need to improve concentration, commensurate with this relaxation and not to the detriment of it for sure. Perhaps focus is a better term? Not on success, but on what you are doing and how it effects the outcome. Focus on success can get in the way of the understanding what is necessary to achieve it.
Keeping yourself internally regulated in terms of relaxation and consistency seem paramount. Being aware of your control inputs is something that I harp on a lot. Being conscious of what you are doing, in a subconscious way, is the sign of a good driver. Multi-tasking. Compartmentalizing. Prioritization. There IS a lot to do, eh? People who's minds are too busy don't realize everything that they are doing.
You have pushed me to my limits as an instructor, and yet so too have you increased them. I have been forced to work VERY HARD at finding ways to reach your learning path, and it has made me a better instructor! Please feel free to continue this dialogue any time. Instructing never ends! ;-)
Best Regard - JH
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Logbook Blurb;
Excellent personality & attitude. Has made great strides through determination. Natural tendency to out-pace concentration, awareness, and consistency. Must learn to self regulate better to maintain consistency and cement good habits. VISUAL learner. Needs to visualize and relax. Stage 3 - 85% Conscious Competent. Work on control input awareness and cause/effect."
RJay, Todd (WOW), e911 (GREAT story), Nordy (great read of a great story!), Arrwin (you're on the right track!)... everybody, GREAT STUFF. Delving into the psychology is what I was looking for because I know it was a mental thing at work here. Be it overload or blockage or whatever, it was in the mind that the battle was being fought.
I felt that I owed him a really good go, and it was successful. He really made great strides at the end of the second day, and did not backslide too dramaticaly after that. I hope that my ego did not get in the way of handing him to someone else when I might ought have. But Damn!... I was determined that the friggin fool git it, someofabitch!
FWIW - My reply to his note I posted earlier, and my entry in his driver log;
"Hi (___);
Well, another battle waged with no casualties! You have been my most challenging student to date. I have tried to understand just why I feel that way, and in the end it would seem that it might be the juxtaposition of your intelligence, positive attitude, and desire to learn contrasted against the difficulty you have in maintaining internal rhythm, concentration, and in discerning WHY a particular outcome was better than another. On the face of it, I perhaps thought you would have an easy time of it, but our endeavors prove two things clearly; performance driving is not easy, and everyone is different.
I think the key to further improvement is in getting a lot of seat time. You seem to need a lot of repetition in order to cement good habits. I think you may possess a very high subconscious desire to perform to a very high automatic level, and this may hinder your concentration by making you too keyed up when you run into challenges. Relaxation, and perhaps detailed visualization, may hold the keys to further success as the gains get smaller and are harder to grasp and attain.
So too do you need to improve concentration, commensurate with this relaxation and not to the detriment of it for sure. Perhaps focus is a better term? Not on success, but on what you are doing and how it effects the outcome. Focus on success can get in the way of the understanding what is necessary to achieve it.
Keeping yourself internally regulated in terms of relaxation and consistency seem paramount. Being aware of your control inputs is something that I harp on a lot. Being conscious of what you are doing, in a subconscious way, is the sign of a good driver. Multi-tasking. Compartmentalizing. Prioritization. There IS a lot to do, eh? People who's minds are too busy don't realize everything that they are doing.
You have pushed me to my limits as an instructor, and yet so too have you increased them. I have been forced to work VERY HARD at finding ways to reach your learning path, and it has made me a better instructor! Please feel free to continue this dialogue any time. Instructing never ends! ;-)
Best Regard - JH
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Logbook Blurb;
Excellent personality & attitude. Has made great strides through determination. Natural tendency to out-pace concentration, awareness, and consistency. Must learn to self regulate better to maintain consistency and cement good habits. VISUAL learner. Needs to visualize and relax. Stage 3 - 85% Conscious Competent. Work on control input awareness and cause/effect."
Last edited by RedlineMan; 08-30-2005 at 08:18 AM. Reason: Spelling
08-29-2005, 11:04 PM
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Great response to him John! Positive spin, but an honest appraisal. I sincerely tip my hat to you, and all the other instructors here who, for the sheer love of what we do, take significant personal risks, both physical and psycological. Obviously none of us performs perfectly, but I think you deserve high praise for being willing to self examine, contemplate how to better help someone and most especially for devoting so much time and energy to a relative stranger. It is simply extraordinary that someone who recieves no monetary compensation can be as dedicated as you have been and yet in PCA, this kind of dedication can be seen over and over again. It makes me extremely proud to be a member and officer of the club. Thank you.