ckkrause

On another thread I was looking for advice on whether to go from street tires to DOT R-Compound tires. I got a wealth of advice and, as a result, have changed my plans! (After about 15 days of DE's, I'm going to stay on street tires and get more instruction!)

The responses got me curious about your advances. So, my question to you is:

Approximately how many DE/race days did you do before you went to sticky tires?

Thanks for your response!

-CKKrause

ceboyd

Wow.. I went to R compounds long before 15 days of DE and noticed immediate differences... I was always told that if you have a good line, are in at least Group II (intermediate) then R compounds are the 1st upgrade before suspension.

The R Compounds were my 2nd upgrade (my 1st being the front strut bar).. and I have no regrets...

NOW I can advise that you go with a cheaper or less sticky R compound to start and not jump into Hoosier's.


Additionally: I found it much cheaper to buy R Compunds than street tires once I started to wear out street tires faster than R compounds because of edge wear (rollover wear)... It got to a point where ti had too much slide on the street tires so they wore out too quickly... ..and I priced out R compounds cheaper than the PZERO street tires I wore out!

pshahn

Don't remember number of days but my progession has been:
1. Seat time
2a. Bilstein sport shocks and alignment
2b. Bigger rear torsion bars (27)
2c. PFC/Hawk pads and ATE fluid
3. More seat time
4. Bumped into the crazy White group (PCA)
5. Yoko 032R and now Victoracers

Car has now (just) got bigger t-bars all around and corner balanced.
Can't wait to check it out

Paul
87 911

ZBlue996Kam

Don't go to R compound until you can consistently drift your car at will.

JackOlsen

Here's another perspective: unless you're involved in wheel-to-wheel racing, there are no compelling reasons to go to R-compound tires at all.

Why's that?

R-Compounds lower your lap times, but they don't make you a faster driver, and they don't make your car any faster.

I can stretch a pair of street tires to about 12 track weekends in a year. A pair of Hoosiers can add up to $500-$1000 of additional cost per weekend, and -- while they'll shave a few seconds off your lap times -- that's all they'll do.

Unless you have an unlimited budget, then the $6,000 to $12,000 you'll spend in a year (or a dozen track events) on R-compound tires is money you'll never see back in any form. If you spent the same $6,000 to $12,000 on engine work, you'd have a better, faster car. If you invested the same $6,000 to $12,000 in driver coaching or additional seat time, you'd have a better, faster driver.

I don't want to overstate the point, since I use R-compounds some of the time -- and always when I race. But in building my car we made it so it could accomodate wider wheels and tires, which eliminated most of the advantage that sticky tires would offer -- while allowing me to run my affordable street tires with money left over for other (more meaningful) improvements.

I'm not against R-compound tires, but from a budgetary point of view, they're the most expensive mod you'll make that won't actually improve the driver or the car -- only the lap times.

ceboyd

there is a certain amount of 'fun' to be had with stock street tires... lots of easy power slides... so I guess if you don't mind wearing out stock street tires... go have fun as is!!!

ceboyd

strange you say this because I found it cheaper to go R compound because I was wearing out stock tires too fast after just 4 track days (or at least one tire -- left front).. due to direction of most of the turns and how hard our local tracks are on tires..


..so for me it was cheaper to go to R compounds instead of street tires... BUT I'm not talking Hoosier's either... I'm talking cheaper model R compounds..

How many Porsche sized 18" street tires can you buy for $115 or $120? ..as the DSSR is the cheapest 18" R compound available this year and last year!!!

sjanes

I switched after about 20 DE days, but that was because my streets were gone (rears anyway) so I needed new tires. Looking back, I would have learned more (and spun less) by staying on streets longer.

Ceboyd: I assume this tire wear was happening on a rather tight track? My experience has been that a 911 will wear rears faster than fronts. Maybe a stiffer rear swaybar may have been cheaper than all of those front tires

ceboyd

yes... that is small tight tracks known to be harsh on tires...

...but now I do have TRG sway bars (along with suspension being upgraded) AND R compounds.. ..and the rears do still cord before the fronts on the DSSR but on MPSCs I loose traction long before the tires wear out so for a few track days the MPSCs are worse than street tires.. LOL ...but you get lots and lots of slide when the MPSCs are over-heatcycled...

kurt M

I was fragging chunks off of my street tires after the first event and they were toast after 5 days. I went to Yoko AO32s for 5 events (10 days) or so. Tore them up from poor susp setup. Added camber and went to Khumos (lasted well and not too "R" ) and then onto Hoos at the start of my 3rd year of track driving. I have a "nonconforming" to the norm way low hp track car and get half a season or more from a set of Hoos. A bit greasy towards the end but I am not racing so no problem. If you move to R compounds you will first need to be able TO use them but not get used BY them. They have less forgiveness than street tires and can let you put yourself into the wall with more force than streets will. I drive Hoos as I am in Black run group and without them I am a hazard anywhere on the track and with am only a moving cone on the straight parts. If I had power I might run Khumos or whatever comes up still looking good from the shop’s tire pile.

The answer of when you can drift at will is well said as is when you tear up street tires.

At Tech we tend to see more failures from fronts with outer edge cording.

Noel

I went to R- Compound after a few events and about 20 autocrosses, but have since gone back to street tires and don't regret it for a second. As Jack said, all it gives you is speed, but for a track person with less than 50 days, it also takes away the learning experience. Track tires do a great job of hiding your mistakes and make yuo think you are a better/ ie faster driver than you really may be.

As for cost, I've been buying Yoko AVS Intermediates, ES100s and next will be Kuhmo MX (All less than $105 per tire) These tires are cheap and wear very well. I find my front tires last twice as long as my rear tires.

However, the biggest plus for me is not having to transport or change tires/wheels anymore.

ceboyd

I do drive to/from events on my R compounds... which is why I don't use hoosier's but the cheaper DSSR which behaves more like a street tire.... the MPSC also allows street driving but behaves more like a true R compound just not as fast of lap times as a Hoosier...

perhaps I'll give the cheaper Kuhmo MXs a try once I use up my cheap DSSRs.. but I've also thought about trying the Toyo RA1s which I've heard good things about...

Bull

I did the switch after about 15 days also. My street tires were taking a real beating (michelins).

When I was moving throught the intermediate run groups, my tire wear and brake pad wear was at it highest. As I moved into the advanced, then instructor groups, my wear decreased for both as i had learned to be smooth(er) and consistent (mostly). I do 30+ days a year and use about 2 sets of MPSCs or Corsas, which costs me about $1800-$2200 in my sizes. Those last days on each set are a fun ride!

Larry Herman

I went to R compound tires when I started Club racing, about 1995 or so. That was after about 12 years of DE's!

Actually I still switch from the slicks back to less grippy Dunlop SSRs from time to time to keep sharp and not loose the feel of a looser car.

M758

I switched after 2 full seasons of autocross and 5 DE days.

I did it when I built my 944 NA for autocross. My goal was lower lap times vs my stock 944 Turbo S. So I stripped an old 944 keep the stock suspension and threw on some kumho's.

I have driven r-tires ever since except for about 10 autocross in my bone stock 83 944. I wanted to teach my wife and get her in to driving. It has not really panned out, but I had hoot on street tire with that car. I also have done few sessions in my turbo S again when instructing.

I maybe made the move too soon, but I benefited most from going to a much slower car and being very concerned about burning up tires.