I feel the same way when stepping into a student’s car. As long as I can communicate to the student in a proper manner, I am happy.

 

I used my Isaac unit for the first time for my last DE., and I joined late and due to some mis-communication I was in group D instead of B, so the lowest group instaed of the the second group and I felt uneasy about wearing it as my instructor did not have one, he has'nt seen an isaac unit before and was curious whether it's been tested at all and was not impressed that the belt end slides around and not secure. He only said "I hope we don't have to use it", I smiled and agreed. But, I did feel uneasy about it. I strongly think the seats/harness has to be the same for the instructor like I have done, and I personally cannot do anything about the H&N restraint for my instructor and can only hope he will understand where I am coming from. I can certainly understand why some instructors may have a problem with it, but I hope a conversation with a student may help weed out the "kamakazi" student.
Jeeva

P.S: IT SHOULD NOT BE O.K TO HAVE INFERIOR SEATS AND HARNESS FOR THE INSTRUCTOR, IMO if the student cannot spend the extra $ to provide the same seat and harness for the instructor who is taking some risk in sitting next to him to teach, he should not be allowed to do DE's.

 

At slower speeds, will a neck collar protect you or is it simply to alleviate the weight of the helmet on your neck?

 

My understanding is that a neck collar is useless in any impact but helpful in supporting the helmet while driving. I do not use one. I have ordered a HANS.

 

A neck collar is probably useful below 10mph or so.
My 12 year old son wears the required neck collar when karting, the theory being that since there are no belts in a kart, you are thrown from the kart and not as likely to sustain BSF.....I don't even want to think about the rationale behind it, but those are the rules.

Watch a sled test video at 35-45mph and you quickly realize that a neck collar at those speeds is worthless.
HANS, ISAAC, R3 seem to be the way to go.

 

i don't know what to say about the incident that just happend last weekend in the beginner (green i assume). it very hard to have a novice mod their cars for safety. i mean how "dangerous" could it be on the track (a beginner driver thinking to himself)... that said, i would most likely go out with a newbie if i didn't have a hans as long as from our conversation i can deduce that the driver is level headed and left his ego at the gate.

however, for medium or fast groups, i expect professionally well installed saftey equipment for driver and passenger. speeds are higher, more cars overheat, engine blowing up, oil all over, none are directly caused by "dumb" driver imputs. but if i drive over some oil, hell i may kiss a wall and i like to have as much protection as i can get.

 

As someone whose life was literally saved by a neck collar I can tell you they work great in compression. But they will do absolutely NOTHING to prevent a basil skull fracture.

The reason it works in karting is you are more likely to have your neck broken from a direct impact (compression) as opposed to the type of situation you'll encounter in a car.

 

I wonder if I would feel more comfortable if I got into a novice's car and he handed me a HANS device and helmet and said "here, put this on."

Seriously though, with the recent fatalities, I imagine that a lot more people will be taking a look at safety equipment in general. I wouldn't be too surprised to see many more HANS devices in the near future. I would hope that if the person goes through the trouble to get a HANS device, you could have a reasonable expectation that the belts are properly installed.

 

HANS is specific for your neck size/height/body type, etc.. so it isn't exactly a good idea to use someone else's unless you happen to be the same size neck...

 

I assume most here get the Model 20, and for me that would be a 20M. Is the difference in weight between "Standard" and "Professional" noticeable when driving? It's a little under .5 LB from what I read..

 

As Geo said, I'd be impressed with a newer student who showed up with personal safety equipment, whether a HANS or Isaac or similiar device (which also means I can use my own in their car, although that wasn't part of the question).

Unless I missed it earlier in the thread, what are some of the reasons why an instructor might object or feel uncomfortable in that circumstance?

 

George,
You are correct, I should have been more specific. I have fallen into the H&N restraint 'rut' of only thinking about BSF (non compression) injuries.....which makes me wonder with a side head restraint seat (Recaro ProRacer SPG in my case) what scenarios would lead to compression injuries when wearing a H&N restraint.

I'm still uneasy regarding karting accidents. I was considering an R3 for my son next season (he is moving up from 8hp 80cc Cadets to 20hp 125Rotax Jr class); but given the design of kart seats, I wasn't sure about the R3 to seat interface. IIRC, they either do or are planning on making R3's in smaller sizes...I'll have to go back and check my emails.

 

I think the idea was that the passenger seat should be accomodated the same as the driver seat.. IE: 5 or 6 point on both sides... race seats on both sides.... I know of one PCA region that requires both seats to be the same.... for begginer and intermediate anyway.... seems fair to me actually... but I don't think there should be a requirement for a student to carry a HANS or other for their instructor IMHO

 

Just a comment. When I first began DE's a couple of years ago, I used the usual 3 point seat belt and standard seat and thought that was fine. Then as I gradually moved up in the DE groupings and got faster, I've seen more and more guys (and women!) spin in front or behind me, several slam the wall just past turn 10 @ Infineon, as well as other problems at other tracks. As a result, I first went to a harness bar and 5 point, then a rollbar and 5 points, and now I have a roll bar, 5 points, race seats, and extinguisher! Having recently gone from tracking a 924S to a 951, I'm now thinking cage and perhaps H&N restraint...even for DE. I look back and think how naive I was about tracking a car and safety. The fact is, if you get to the end of a straight @ 120-130 mph and lose it, you're dead if you f--- -p w/o safety equipment!!! That doesn't even take into account some of the crazies that want to flatout race in DE.... it sometimes takes time to see the danger, but you better, because it's there to bite you very quickly indeed!!!!

-CKKrause

 

I assume most here get the Model 20, and for me that would be a 20M. Is the difference in weight between "Standard" and "Professional" noticeable when driving? It's a little under .5 LB from what I read..
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i wear 20M pro model.
the only difference as i was told, b/n pro and economy (that's what the manufacturer called it) is in wt. and it is very small difference. i got pro model b/c the econ one was backordered when i bought mine.