DE Insurance - this looks good!
07-25-2005, 09:11 AM
#31
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Mark:
Certainly not trying to argue, but I've spoken with agent about the car on the trailer thing, and he said that my trailer policy automatically covers whatever the trailer is hauling. Whether it is furniture, car, a tractor, etc.
I have State Farm. I guess every policy is different, but that is what they told me when I bought the trailer policy, and we've discussed it since then as well.
Brian
Certainly not trying to argue, but I've spoken with agent about the car on the trailer thing, and he said that my trailer policy automatically covers whatever the trailer is hauling. Whether it is furniture, car, a tractor, etc.
I have State Farm. I guess every policy is different, but that is what they told me when I bought the trailer policy, and we've discussed it since then as well.
Brian
07-25-2005, 09:50 AM
#32
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Simple way to get real answers. Sit down and read your policy. Read the exclusions word for word. Insurance policies vary, even within an insurance company state to state. No one can say Progressive or USAA or whoever will or will not cover you. It all depends on what is printed in YOUR own policy. The general view within the law is that if it in not excluded in print it is covered.
(Opinion) Get a policy with a company that does not have an agent assigned to you or that sells directly to you. The horror stories that I have heard have almost always had a capricious ***** head agent involved.
If you are a good driver with a good record and a good history with a good insurance co you are in a much better position that if any of the above are not so.
(Opinion) Get a policy with a company that does not have an agent assigned to you or that sells directly to you. The horror stories that I have heard have almost always had a capricious ***** head agent involved.
If you are a good driver with a good record and a good history with a good insurance co you are in a much better position that if any of the above are not so.
07-25-2005, 03:09 PM
#33
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Originally Posted by rockitman
for liablity(3rd party), it's covered, but for damage, I would imagine the car in tow is considered cargo (inland Marine) which is excluded under the personal automobil policy. You need to get a floater policy or a rider to the existing policy for the car to be insured for physical damage while in tow...
08-09-2005, 02:54 PM
#34
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Another thread about insurance for the DE car, and another thread full of interesting assumptions. I have been out of the property and casualty insurance business for a while now, but there are a number of things that are still not understood.
Generally speaking, if you look carefully enough, EVERY private passenger auto policy will exclude any form of competition event, one way or another. And if the word "competition" bothers you, just ask the insurance company itself about "off highway" motoring events.
I read one thread above about not covering the trailer, and that the trailer was "automatically" covered. I assume that the writer meant it was automatically covered for liability insurance when hitched to a tow vehicle. That is patently incorrect. IF the gross weight of the trailer exceeds 2500 pounds, it is NOT covered and must be insured separately. Look at the policy carefully again.
One other comment that I will make here regards determination of coverage. MOST people think that the word of their agent, whether a direct writing agent like a State Farm or Liberty Mutual, or an independent agent can tell them that they are covered. The truth here is that they may or may not know what is covered or not. In point of fact, coverage is NOT determined by the agent, OR the underwriter. Coverage is determined AFTER the accident, by the claims department. So, read your policy carefully, and if you can get the insurance company (not Agent), but the Insurance Company underwriting supervisor for the region in which you life to specify the kind of non-public road driving events that you can enter and expect coverage with your vehicle, guard the statement carefully. At least when the claims department denies coverage you will have someone's signature to use when you are fighting for your financial life in court.
Quite a long time ago, a friend of mine, who was an insurance agent, had his 356C Porsche Cabriolet rolled by his crazy wife in consecutive autocrosses. She rolled the car at Herring Cove Beach in Provincetown in the fall, and after the car was repaired, again the next spring in the same spot. After the second claim was paid, the insurance company asked my friend to PLEASE place his coverage somewhere else. That was in 1966, and driving the family car to an autocross every summer weekend was perfectly normal....that was then, and now is now.
Generally speaking, if you look carefully enough, EVERY private passenger auto policy will exclude any form of competition event, one way or another. And if the word "competition" bothers you, just ask the insurance company itself about "off highway" motoring events.
I read one thread above about not covering the trailer, and that the trailer was "automatically" covered. I assume that the writer meant it was automatically covered for liability insurance when hitched to a tow vehicle. That is patently incorrect. IF the gross weight of the trailer exceeds 2500 pounds, it is NOT covered and must be insured separately. Look at the policy carefully again.
One other comment that I will make here regards determination of coverage. MOST people think that the word of their agent, whether a direct writing agent like a State Farm or Liberty Mutual, or an independent agent can tell them that they are covered. The truth here is that they may or may not know what is covered or not. In point of fact, coverage is NOT determined by the agent, OR the underwriter. Coverage is determined AFTER the accident, by the claims department. So, read your policy carefully, and if you can get the insurance company (not Agent), but the Insurance Company underwriting supervisor for the region in which you life to specify the kind of non-public road driving events that you can enter and expect coverage with your vehicle, guard the statement carefully. At least when the claims department denies coverage you will have someone's signature to use when you are fighting for your financial life in court.
Quite a long time ago, a friend of mine, who was an insurance agent, had his 356C Porsche Cabriolet rolled by his crazy wife in consecutive autocrosses. She rolled the car at Herring Cove Beach in Provincetown in the fall, and after the car was repaired, again the next spring in the same spot. After the second claim was paid, the insurance company asked my friend to PLEASE place his coverage somewhere else. That was in 1966, and driving the family car to an autocross every summer weekend was perfectly normal....that was then, and now is now.
08-09-2005, 03:53 PM
#35
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Originally Posted by R.M. Woodbury
Another thread about insurance for the DE car, and another thread full of interesting assumptions. I have been out of the property and casualty insurance business for a while now, but there are a number of things that are still not understood.
Generally speaking, if you look carefully enough, EVERY private passenger auto policy will exclude any form of competition event, one way or another. And if the word "competition" bothers you, just ask the insurance company itself about "off highway" motoring events.
I read one thread above about not covering the trailer, and that the trailer was "automatically" covered. I assume that the writer meant it was automatically covered for liability insurance when hitched to a tow vehicle. That is patently incorrect. IF the gross weight of the trailer exceeds 2500 pounds, it is NOT covered and must be insured separately. Look at the policy carefully again.
One other comment that I will make here regards determination of coverage. MOST people think that the word of their agent, whether a direct writing agent like a State Farm or Liberty Mutual, or an independent agent can tell them that they are covered. The truth here is that they may or may not know what is covered or not. In point of fact, coverage is NOT determined by the agent, OR the underwriter. Coverage is determined AFTER the accident, by the claims department. So, read your policy carefully, and if you can get the insurance company (not Agent), but the Insurance Company underwriting supervisor for the region in which you life to specify the kind of non-public road driving events that you can enter and expect coverage with your vehicle, guard the statement carefully. At least when the claims department denies coverage you will have someone's signature to use when you are fighting for your financial life in court.
Quite a long time ago, a friend of mine, who was an insurance agent, had his 356C Porsche Cabriolet rolled by his crazy wife in consecutive autocrosses. She rolled the car at Herring Cove Beach in Provincetown in the fall, and after the car was repaired, again the next spring in the same spot. After the second claim was paid, the insurance company asked my friend to PLEASE place his coverage somewhere else. That was in 1966, and driving the family car to an autocross every summer weekend was perfectly normal....that was then, and now is now.
Generally speaking, if you look carefully enough, EVERY private passenger auto policy will exclude any form of competition event, one way or another. And if the word "competition" bothers you, just ask the insurance company itself about "off highway" motoring events.
I read one thread above about not covering the trailer, and that the trailer was "automatically" covered. I assume that the writer meant it was automatically covered for liability insurance when hitched to a tow vehicle. That is patently incorrect. IF the gross weight of the trailer exceeds 2500 pounds, it is NOT covered and must be insured separately. Look at the policy carefully again.
One other comment that I will make here regards determination of coverage. MOST people think that the word of their agent, whether a direct writing agent like a State Farm or Liberty Mutual, or an independent agent can tell them that they are covered. The truth here is that they may or may not know what is covered or not. In point of fact, coverage is NOT determined by the agent, OR the underwriter. Coverage is determined AFTER the accident, by the claims department. So, read your policy carefully, and if you can get the insurance company (not Agent), but the Insurance Company underwriting supervisor for the region in which you life to specify the kind of non-public road driving events that you can enter and expect coverage with your vehicle, guard the statement carefully. At least when the claims department denies coverage you will have someone's signature to use when you are fighting for your financial life in court.
Quite a long time ago, a friend of mine, who was an insurance agent, had his 356C Porsche Cabriolet rolled by his crazy wife in consecutive autocrosses. She rolled the car at Herring Cove Beach in Provincetown in the fall, and after the car was repaired, again the next spring in the same spot. After the second claim was paid, the insurance company asked my friend to PLEASE place his coverage somewhere else. That was in 1966, and driving the family car to an autocross every summer weekend was perfectly normal....that was then, and now is now.
Youa re absolutely correct. Trailers need additional separate insurance, and few if any will insure at a track. Off highway is in most policies. I know librerty mutual has it in there. And never trust your agent, get it in writing if they say it will be covered. And even then if they do cover you for an accident on a track, be preparped to get dropped!
08-09-2005, 04:17 PM
#36
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Originally Posted by Anir
State Farm covered my wreck at a PCA Road America DE. They were excellent from start to finish.
Paying for the occasional DE accident pays off in the long run for their customer and their reputation.
If you crack up one car per season, I'm sure this would change. Same way it would if you crash a lot of cars on the street.
From the N.A.S.A. Pro Racing site: "From 1989 to date, there has been zero unpaid legitimate claims."
08-10-2005, 12:50 AM
#37
I have friends in our PCA region who have had on track whoops that totalled their cars. The insurance companies put up a tremendous fight with lots of private investigator research looking for evidence the car is used in competition or timed events. Auto cross is a timed event and if they find your name published on a list of participants and their times they will claim your car is used in competition and will deny the track event acident claim. One of our members had to hire private counsel and fight it in court. He won but it took about three years to go through the litigation and had to pay out of pocket for a replacement car while the case was being litigated. DE coverage if available in your state makes sense to me as they pay no questions asked. We have had a few members put American Collectors to the test and they paid the claim quickly.
08-10-2005, 08:17 PM
#38
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If they would only insure in every state.... or at least mine so I could use them.
Originally Posted by Brian_77_3.6
We have had a few members put American Collectors to the test and they paid the claim quickly.
08-11-2005, 10:14 PM
#39
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Originally Posted by sprbxr
Are there any companies that cover Virginia? I need paddock, storage and transport coverage for my C2T track car.
08-13-2005, 09:58 AM
#40
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I've had track coverage with American Collectors Insurance for about 2 1/2 years. I first got it because a friend was driving my caron the track (newbie), and was quite nervous about the insurance aspects. ALSO, because I was driving faster than I had the first couple of years, and was seeing 1-2 totalled cars at nearly every event. SO - paid the 2% of agreed value premium, (with 20% deductible).
A year ago, I totaled my car in Canada. Am Collectors was fabulous. They arranged for a claim investigation at Mt Tremblant (nearest adjustor was in Montreal) within 4 days, agreed to the full settlement within the week, and provided me with a buy back figure that was VERY attractive (<10% of the agreed value) within another day or two. I had a check from them for the balance, had my car back in southeast PA, and dismantled within 2 weeks after the crash.
Oh yes, they also cancelled the policy for the remainder of the 365 day year, effective the day of the wreck, and refunded the balance of my premium (~75% of it). When I insured the replacement car in May of this year, - no problemo. Transaction completed within 4-5 days from application and submission of check.
Obviously, I'm very pleased with their service. Will continue to be a customer, and hope not to have another claim. (I also think you can cancel your policy at the end of the season {~Nov} and repurchase it the next year {Apr/May?} if you want).
Gary Knox
A year ago, I totaled my car in Canada. Am Collectors was fabulous. They arranged for a claim investigation at Mt Tremblant (nearest adjustor was in Montreal) within 4 days, agreed to the full settlement within the week, and provided me with a buy back figure that was VERY attractive (<10% of the agreed value) within another day or two. I had a check from them for the balance, had my car back in southeast PA, and dismantled within 2 weeks after the crash.
Oh yes, they also cancelled the policy for the remainder of the 365 day year, effective the day of the wreck, and refunded the balance of my premium (~75% of it). When I insured the replacement car in May of this year, - no problemo. Transaction completed within 4-5 days from application and submission of check.
Obviously, I'm very pleased with their service. Will continue to be a customer, and hope not to have another claim. (I also think you can cancel your policy at the end of the season {~Nov} and repurchase it the next year {Apr/May?} if you want).
Gary Knox
08-14-2005, 01:32 PM
#41
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I have a slightly different take on this (and agree with Kary993); also, the subject has been discussed elsewhere.
I believe for those of us with less valuable cars it makes sense to have this type of insurance, and I have the policy with ACS. Consider that 2% premium and 20% deductible. A friend slid his GT3 into the guard rail in the roller coaster at VIR. His repair cost was $20K, a student put his GT3 into the Armco in the 'toe' at WGI. Both of these high speed crashes resulted in approximately the same repair cost. Wreck an SC/964 severely and it will cost you about $20K. Hypotheticals here, not insurance data, but reports from unfortunate friends. Apply the cost and the deductible.
GT3 (declared value $100K; $20K damage) - Premium $2K; Deductible $20K -- you pay $22K, insurance pays $0
S/C/964 (declared value $25K; $20K damage) - Premium $500; deductible $5K -- you pay $5,500, insurance pays $14,500
The more expensive your car is north of these numbers the less this insurance will do for you unless you really destroy the car. Hopefully the math is somewhat correct and I am sure that if it is not someone will correct it. What it shows is that as the car gets more valuable, the repair cost become a lower percentage of the value of the car and the return on (your) insurance investment go down. The premium may actually be 1.5% percent of the declared value, but I can't remember.
Also, very good reports on ACS and its predecessor.
I believe for those of us with less valuable cars it makes sense to have this type of insurance, and I have the policy with ACS. Consider that 2% premium and 20% deductible. A friend slid his GT3 into the guard rail in the roller coaster at VIR. His repair cost was $20K, a student put his GT3 into the Armco in the 'toe' at WGI. Both of these high speed crashes resulted in approximately the same repair cost. Wreck an SC/964 severely and it will cost you about $20K. Hypotheticals here, not insurance data, but reports from unfortunate friends. Apply the cost and the deductible.
GT3 (declared value $100K; $20K damage) - Premium $2K; Deductible $20K -- you pay $22K, insurance pays $0
S/C/964 (declared value $25K; $20K damage) - Premium $500; deductible $5K -- you pay $5,500, insurance pays $14,500
The more expensive your car is north of these numbers the less this insurance will do for you unless you really destroy the car. Hopefully the math is somewhat correct and I am sure that if it is not someone will correct it. What it shows is that as the car gets more valuable, the repair cost become a lower percentage of the value of the car and the return on (your) insurance investment go down. The premium may actually be 1.5% percent of the declared value, but I can't remember.
Also, very good reports on ACS and its predecessor.
Last edited by Alan Herod; 08-14-2005 at 07:14 PM.
08-14-2005, 06:29 PM
#42
Drifting
I have American Collectors and they cover all DE's, storage and transporting to and from track. All for $500 per year. Have not had to file a claim but they've been very professional so far.
09-02-2005, 05:08 PM
#43
Hey all, I'm gunna bring back an old post here.
I'm in WA state and I'm looking for similar insurance. American Collectors doesn't insure in Washington, and I can't find anyone who will cover any sort of "off-highway" stuff like DE's.
Anyone got anything they can share?
Thanks.
I'm in WA state and I'm looking for similar insurance. American Collectors doesn't insure in Washington, and I can't find anyone who will cover any sort of "off-highway" stuff like DE's.
Anyone got anything they can share?
Thanks.
09-02-2005, 06:46 PM
#44
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Programs > Driver's Education
Policy Information
Auto Physical Damage Insurance for Driver's Ed Enthusiasts
Now available in CA, CT, FL, GA, IL MD, MI, MN, NC, OH, PA, WA, and WI
Take it from a guy that has just shelled out $32K and counting to repair a little incident at PRI in 03. (Already detailed here a while ago) because thier normal insurance company said take a hike (Nationwide).
DE Insurance is a good bet.... Hell $1,125.00 for $75K coverage would have saved me about $30,875.00 (or about 27.44 years of DE coverage)
*forgot the deductable stuff* at $15,000.00 (20% of 75K) still would have saved me $15,875.00 SO Far - i still have to reassemble it and buy all the parts that were crushed..... So an even $20-25K is reasonable.
I will be getting a policy when i return to the track, even if the car is disposable.
**They do insure in WA, btw****
Policy Information
Auto Physical Damage Insurance for Driver's Ed Enthusiasts
Now available in CA, CT, FL, GA, IL MD, MI, MN, NC, OH, PA, WA, and WI
Take it from a guy that has just shelled out $32K and counting to repair a little incident at PRI in 03. (Already detailed here a while ago) because thier normal insurance company said take a hike (Nationwide).
DE Insurance is a good bet.... Hell $1,125.00 for $75K coverage would have saved me about $30,875.00 (or about 27.44 years of DE coverage)
*forgot the deductable stuff* at $15,000.00 (20% of 75K) still would have saved me $15,875.00 SO Far - i still have to reassemble it and buy all the parts that were crushed..... So an even $20-25K is reasonable.
I will be getting a policy when i return to the track, even if the car is disposable.
**They do insure in WA, btw****
09-02-2005, 08:39 PM
#45
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I have American Bankers DE insurance. Very reasonable. Your declared (but must be reasonable) value, less 20% deductible; unlimited DE events; one year coverage...1.5% of the declared value is the cost. No claims so far, but have heard good things about the company. Hopefully, I never need it.