JackOlsen

I think the Elise has great potential as a track car. But I can't think of any reason it would be dramatically safer than your current car. There's less of the Elise mass to absorb energy. The results of your own mass slamming into it are not going to be dramatically different than with the Turbo. The usual argument of more mass being less manageable, in terms of accident avoidance, is less applicable to a TT than it would be to, say, a Yukon XL. With less mass, the light car will stop quicker, which means more rapid deceleration for the driver, right?

Admittedly, you'll pose less of a danger to others, as well as the track's infrastructure.

But weight-and-safety arguments always ring a little hollow to me, in both directions. There just doesn't appear to be all that significant a correlation.

The good things you're talking about are:

A full cage, and fire-suppression, and neck-restraint system will make a dramatic difference in safety. That's pure good.
The Elise is probably a better base as a weekend track car.
You will spend less on tires and brake pads with a lighter car.

Sanjeevan

C.C., Even with the same aftermarket safety equipment would'nt there be more to crash survivability than just the kinetic energy you are carrying...

edit: sorry jack's comments were'nt there when I started pecking...I agree with Jack,

carreracup21

I think you would do best to buy a factory race car with all the safety equipment already installed and proven. Either a 964 Cup. 993 Cup or 996 GT3 Cup. They are all great performers with all the go fast goodies already installed. The mainenance issues in a well sorted older car don't have to be more than a new car. You will still have to change the fluids, pads, rotors and tires in all of them new or old. As long as you start with a decent engine and tranny you should be good to go for a long time. If you start with a new car, you will have to develope it which takes time and a good shop to do the work. I think it's much easier to get a proven platform, plus you will have a easier time selling it if you want to try something else. They all weigh about 2500 - 2600 lbs. though.

ColorChange

Jack: If you look at the energy, that needs to be absorbed, I am almost guaranteed 1/2 the energy right off the bat. If I happen to be going fast due to my 650+ ponies, it could be 1/4 the energy. If you combine this with a full cage, full containment, fire suppression ... I think it is quite a bit safer alternative.

On the street, where you are likely to hit someone else, the mass helps you. On the track, where a collision with another car is much less likely, especially in DE's, mass hurts.

While cup cars et. al. are very safe, they still put me in the high(er) weight, higher horsepower category I am trying to avoid.

If I wasn't a Daddy, I'd still be in love with my track beast, but until the kids are older, I feel I need to dial it back.

Geo

Ah, but the point you are missing is how much can one car absorb vs. another. That is the difficult question. I suspect the Lotus, being a Lotus (even a modern one), would be considerably more fragile.

Good for you. Nothing more important than children.

ColorChange

Geo: I agree that it's real tough to estimate crash absorption. If you look at the Elise, it really is pretty tough and it would have to have real bad absorption to lose the 1/2 advantage it starts with. Difficult to know. Any technical input or how to compare?

Sanjeevan

I would say almost impossible...ergo! the need for crash tests.

carreracup21

I think the difference between a factory race car and something you develope yourself is akin to flying in a factory certified aircraft vs. an experimental homebuilt. Why re-invent the wheel. Buy something that has been proven on the track under race conditions. The factories have years of experience behind them and these cars are designed with crashing in mind.

ColorChange

The group that will be doing the conversion does all the Elise SCCA cars. Becuase something has more of it or a bigger history does not make it better. It doesn't make it worse for sure, it's just not a compelling arguement and the 600 lb or much more mass saving is.

carreracup21

I think the only mass you have to worry about is your body. A lighter car might suffer a more rapid deceleration when hitting a tire wall, thus causing more potential head or neck injury. Doesn't do your aortic arch any good either...rapid decel that is. I'm unsure of the elise and that aluminum monocoque chasis. I'm not sure how safe a barrier it is and what kind of strengthening is necessary to support a steel cage. Seems like a lot of uncertainties and questions to me, but it sounds like you have your mind made up. Should be a fun car, but I don't think it will necessarily be safer.

Honkity Hank

On a lighter side you should consider just driving slower, or if applicable going on the South Beach diet.

JackOlsen

Q. Two cars slam into a wall at a race track. Car A weighs 4000 pounds. Car B weighs 2000 pounds. Which driver suffers fewer injuries?

A. The driver with the cage, harness, and neck restraint.

I agree that a factory-built race car will be more likely to have a safety system with components that work in harmony. That's not to say individual builders don't build safe cars. But some of them have very limited data to draw on. The factory certainly has more actual crash testing under its belt and more incident data, over a longer sample of years, to look at.

dwe8922

I got to ride in a factory five racing spec cobra roadster, and was really impressed. Its an open car, but also has a tubular steel frame with an scca legal cage with nascar door bars. I think the weight is around 2300lb, consumables are cheap, they have a spec series with nasa, and a complete car should run between $20-25k. They are capable of 1:41 at road atlanta, which is fast.

944TURBOS

Hey tim, if you want one, I still have my spot at fox valley, its all yours if they are still asking for more than MSRP. I got my spot a while ago and really can not get the car right now. Let me know.

I drove one and I think you will love it. Your turbo will have a ton more juice and the elise will feel sluggish in comparison. Judging from that ride you gave me at blackhawk I think you might want more hp in the elise. But let me tell ya, it feels the closest thing any car has to the shifter karts I have driven. I think you will like the go-kart like handling and responsiveness. I have been thinking of going out to fox valley again sometime soon. If you are headed out that way, shoot me a PM and I would gladly go out and if you want the spot hand it over to ya.

ColorChange

Jack and others, here is why weight is important, but yes, let's assume both cars have full safety equipment. Carrera, your analysis is probably wrong unless one car has superior crash absorption compared to the other.

Car A = 1,900 lb 190 hp
Car B = 2,500 lb 400 hp

First, if anything happens while you are going even faster, the lower hp car wins. Let's assume Car A 110 mph, Car B 130 mph so you have 46% less energy (1/2 mass x velocity^2) in car A when you leave the track. Car A decels much quicker due to the lower mass and hits the wall at 60 mph. Car B hits at 90 mph. Now car A hits the wall with 66% less energy to absorb than car B. These numbers are only guesses by me but you get the point. Don't think both cars hit the wall at the same speed, they almost certainly do not: the lighter car will hit while going slower.

Mo, thanks bud! FVMC is at list now. They have a saffron yellow I may take a look at tomorrow. I need to make sure my helmet will clear the hard top. I'll pm my phone #.