Why hand signals for passing on DE's and not the blinkers.
06-16-2005, 03:42 PM
#46
Race Director
Originally Posted by tedwright
I've done DE's where we use blinkers, and I have been to DE's where they use hand signals. From what I hear, in NJ they HAVE to use hand signals, because the driver's don't know where the blinkers are. 
My hand goes out the window if I allow the car behind me to pass. IF there are two cars behind me, my hand goes out the window for the first car, then back in my car, and then out again for the second car. Will this take longer to complete the two passes? Possibly - but this is DE folks - your 'tarck buddy' will hold up a second or two to allow you to catch up!
Seriously, if there are two cars behind me, I do whatever I can to get them both by - being a low hp car driver, I typically don't have to do too much work to have cars get by me. Just a little common respect is much appreicated. (End rant).Regarding windows - I run with both of them down. That doubles my escape routes. (Duh!) If I really shunt it bad, then worse case scenario, my car will be on it's side. If I'm on my driver's side, and my passenger window is NOT open, I can be stuck. If a car comes to a stop on its side, that means the other side is typically open for escape. It's not rocket science.
-Z.
06-16-2005, 10:42 PM
#47
Instructor
Join Date: Nov 2003
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I have had a VERY close call with Blinkers...
Our region at the time allowed both Hand Signals and Blinkers. I was on the tail of a 993 C4S going into turn 8 at Mosport. I gave the driver room to do 8,9, and 10 and we then proceeded to the front straight. On the front straight (or pit straight) there is a wall on the right side and the line is on the left. The driver put on the right signal, and I pulled out to pass, I was about half way beside his car when the driver decided to MOVE over to the right side of the track, squeezing me almost against the wall. The driver then realized his mistake and put on the brakes, and swerved back to the left side of the track, almost collecting me again. After that confusion, I strongly suggested we go hand signals only.... correct blinker usage is too easily missunderstood.
The other related problem was this idiot, who has displayed stupidity at other times wth other dirvers, was in the wrong run group and would never get a talking too because he was "good friends" with the DE organizers. What a joke...
Ymmv,
Patrick
Our region at the time allowed both Hand Signals and Blinkers. I was on the tail of a 993 C4S going into turn 8 at Mosport. I gave the driver room to do 8,9, and 10 and we then proceeded to the front straight. On the front straight (or pit straight) there is a wall on the right side and the line is on the left. The driver put on the right signal, and I pulled out to pass, I was about half way beside his car when the driver decided to MOVE over to the right side of the track, squeezing me almost against the wall. The driver then realized his mistake and put on the brakes, and swerved back to the left side of the track, almost collecting me again. After that confusion, I strongly suggested we go hand signals only.... correct blinker usage is too easily missunderstood.
The other related problem was this idiot, who has displayed stupidity at other times wth other dirvers, was in the wrong run group and would never get a talking too because he was "good friends" with the DE organizers. What a joke...
Ymmv,
Patrick
06-17-2005, 10:09 AM
#48
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by P.Po
I have had a VERY close call with Blinkers...
Our region at the time allowed both Hand Signals and Blinkers. I was on the tail of a 993 C4S going into turn 8 at Mosport. I gave the driver room to do 8,9, and 10 and we then proceeded to the front straight. On the front straight (or pit straight) there is a wall on the right side and the line is on the left. The driver put on the right signal, and I pulled out to pass, I was about half way beside his car when the driver decided to MOVE over to the right side of the track, squeezing me almost against the wall. The driver then realized his mistake and put on the brakes, and swerved back to the left side of the track, almost collecting me again. After that confusion, I strongly suggested we go hand signals only.... correct blinker usage is too easily missunderstood.
The other related problem was this idiot, who has displayed stupidity at other times wth other dirvers, was in the wrong run group and would never get a talking too because he was "good friends" with the DE organizers. What a joke...
Ymmv,
Patrick
Our region at the time allowed both Hand Signals and Blinkers. I was on the tail of a 993 C4S going into turn 8 at Mosport. I gave the driver room to do 8,9, and 10 and we then proceeded to the front straight. On the front straight (or pit straight) there is a wall on the right side and the line is on the left. The driver put on the right signal, and I pulled out to pass, I was about half way beside his car when the driver decided to MOVE over to the right side of the track, squeezing me almost against the wall. The driver then realized his mistake and put on the brakes, and swerved back to the left side of the track, almost collecting me again. After that confusion, I strongly suggested we go hand signals only.... correct blinker usage is too easily missunderstood.
The other related problem was this idiot, who has displayed stupidity at other times wth other dirvers, was in the wrong run group and would never get a talking too because he was "good friends" with the DE organizers. What a joke...
Ymmv,
Patrick
P.Po,
That wouldn't happen to be the same guy that almost t-boned me (while he was sliding backwards) a few years ago at Mosport's T1 is it?
As for blinkers vs hands, I've used both and prefer the hand signals. In my run group (red), I'm often being passed by GT-12's (4 GT-3's nose to tail). It's a lot easier to let 2 of the 4 by in a short passing zone using hand signals than a turn signal. Hand out, hand in, hand out again. Easy to understand.
06-17-2005, 04:27 PM
#49
Nordschleife Master
Interesting thread.. I've asked myself this before, but the answer always comes back the same.
For a DE, using a point-by is the most dependable indication that you are being let by. A blinker is just too unreliable.. a DE is supposed to be a learning environment, and so the students should be driving at a level where they can actually put thier hand out the window and still safely operate the car. If we are driving so fast that we can't safely put out a point by, maybe we should be club racing.
The Nordschleife is special because it is actually an unlimited speed, one way, toll highway. The rules of the road apply there. (unless is it closed for a race) I am not sure if they have any special rules regarding passing, but since I last heard, it's the same as it would be on a road. You put out your turn signal to show you are moving over. Very simple. There are no "passing zones" this can be done anywhere and anytime, and a point-by or signal is not a prerequisite to being passed at the ring. (correct me if I'm wrong!) North American drivers might have a problem understanding this concept.. as people in general in North America cannot fathom moving over for a faster car. (due to some sort of superiority complex.. I dunno.. maybe it has something to do with why people love SUVs so much even when they don't use them to tow or go 4x4ing..)
But "Nordschleife" raises a valid point regarding nets - why don't you see them in any high-level of motorsports? (other than NASTYCAR?)
For a DE, using a point-by is the most dependable indication that you are being let by. A blinker is just too unreliable.. a DE is supposed to be a learning environment, and so the students should be driving at a level where they can actually put thier hand out the window and still safely operate the car. If we are driving so fast that we can't safely put out a point by, maybe we should be club racing.
The Nordschleife is special because it is actually an unlimited speed, one way, toll highway. The rules of the road apply there. (unless is it closed for a race) I am not sure if they have any special rules regarding passing, but since I last heard, it's the same as it would be on a road. You put out your turn signal to show you are moving over. Very simple. There are no "passing zones" this can be done anywhere and anytime, and a point-by or signal is not a prerequisite to being passed at the ring. (correct me if I'm wrong!) North American drivers might have a problem understanding this concept.. as people in general in North America cannot fathom moving over for a faster car. (due to some sort of superiority complex.. I dunno.. maybe it has something to do with why people love SUVs so much even when they don't use them to tow or go 4x4ing..)
But "Nordschleife" raises a valid point regarding nets - why don't you see them in any high-level of motorsports? (other than NASTYCAR?)
