Nordschleife

In any speed sport, if one of the participants is having doubts about being there, then it is better for hem not to be. Realistically, if thoughts of your loved ones come into your mind whilst on the track, perhaps you should be on the golf course.

Grand Prix yachting is comparatively safe, sociable, you can take the whole family out on cake days, and its much more expensive than cars. Whats not to like?

R+C

DJF1

Some good advise there from all. For the past 2 days I have not been able to put this out of my mind, its difficult to even concentrate on work. Their loss was very tragic especially to their families, but also to our virtual communities.
I sincerely hope that out of this tragedy there are going to come out some good lessons learned for ALL the clubs and all of us.
I have been doing DE's for 7 years and racing for 3 with PCA. This past Sebring club race I was involved in a very bad accident and I was lucky to escape unharmed with only a sore neck for a few days. My race car has the mandatory safety equipment in it, Heigo full cage, fire system, new schroths, window nets, Sparco seats and I was wearing full sparco gear 3 layer nomex etc. So full gear except the neck restraining system. Watching my onboard video with my wife after the race, she broke into tears. I was sideswiped by another racer almost T-boned at 80+ mph per hour. I was lucky in a sence that I was not pushed to the wall and that the other car did not strike my door, however watching the video and seeing my head overextending to the right and then smaking the rollbar to the left before returning to the normal position like I was a rag doll, it was a sobering wake up call for me and for the value of proper equipment in the car. For me nowdays, I cannot imagine riding in a convertible on the track, I cannot imagine going out without full gear at ANY event. Speed does not distinguish between DE and RACE. Its one and the same and the devastating effects of it we just witnessed.
Be safe out there and dont skimp on safety equipment.
RIP Ben and Corey and God bless your families.

Honkity Hank

RXDoc

While DE's carry their element of risk, all activities have risk. people die on the golf course every day. IMO you have more control over your risk than anyone. While some accidents are the result of confluence of events, most can be avoided by sound judgement and action.

So our risks are determined by our behavior, skill, and experience. That is why at a PCA event a first time student is not put in the fray with experienced racers.

Dirty Harry said it well "A man just has to know his limitations".

Hope to see you this coming weekend at Road Atlanta.

Honkity Hank

I hit post before I finished.

The accident at Fontana is tragic, by all accounts we lost 2 great souls from our world. My thoughts and prayers go out their family and friends. May God speed.

RXDOC

Some fantastic, insightful advice from everyone.
I appreciate everybody's views on this matter. I think I will look into increasing safety devices for the TT. And at the same time find a lower horsepower track car to buy.
In the meanwhile, I will be the SLOW (Black) 996TT at RA next week, to everyone as they pass me!
Everyone: BE SAFE OUT THERE!

RedlineMan

I've been here before... This is not a new thing -
but one we must all learn from yet again.

My thoughts are at http://redlinerennsport.homestead.co...Ed19sword.html

If ANYONE has questions about safety, PLEASE ASK. I'd rather wear my fingers to the bone typing than loose another mate.

fatbillybob

FWIW, those of you thinking you never want to get beyond DE after reading about this tradgedy, IMO racing is safer. Why? Well its the caliber of people who function at a much higher level. In fact in my race groups being the most in experienced I'm the dangerous one. After awhile you start seeing the same guys out there. We all get to know each other and their capabilities. DE's seem to always have a new face. I feel safer at higher speeds in a race group as a mid to back marker than in a novice DE group.

George from MD

"Think of this aspect. By driving in DE and learning high performance car control skills you will be far better prepared to avoid or lessen the damage from an accident in the real world of the street. The drunk that swerves in front of you while driving the family home from the movie just might be avoided by you with your improved skills. This is something that will benefit you and your family. We go to high school, learn to drive then and then go on to higher learning but don't continue to improve our driving skills after high school. We become MBAs and PHDs driving around at a high school level. Teach your son the reasons and good habits of concentration while driving and maintaining equipment. Someday he might avoid an untimely demise from the advanced skills and knowledge you can impart to him that most other fathers cannot. Take him to the track so he will learn cars and driving from you and not from a testosterone addled teenager friend when he is of driving age.

I have 2 kids and I have a photo of them both in my cars, street and track. Just a glance and I am reminded of the important things in life."

VERY well said....

TT Surgeon

I think making your car as safe as can be, only going to well run/ safe events(read pca)/ well staffed, etc will remove as many variables as possible from the equation. A well run de should be safer than your commute to work.
A few yrs ago a cardiac surgeon I know was killed in a freak accident commuting to work at 6am, debris from an oncoming truck hit him head on, never knew what hit him. Here was a guy who always played it safe, you just never know.

Earlierapex

I've done lots of DE's, instructed and have a few races under my belt. No matter what, you can get caught up in the red mist to some degree...

I've found a new way to have a blast and widen the safety envelope. I just do DE's on street tires. You can't go nearly as fast in the corners (there's no reason to at a DE anyway, there is no *win*), and the corners are the real dangerous parts of the track. It actually ends up being more fun because you slide around more and get to feel the dynamics of the car at 70mph rather than at 80mph. The breakaway characteristics are much better too. It's cheaper and easier on the brakes, suspension, cooling system, etc. All it takes is a willingness to let your ego take a hike and get passed by a slower car on better tires.

I disagree with FatBillyBob on racing being safer. When racing, everyone on the track is pushing much closer to the edge of the envelope. Are they better drivers? Clearly, but everyone is pushing much harder. But, that's what is nice about opinions, no?

-dc

Z-man

Ben's tragic loss hits home to many of us who frequent this forum. He lost his life doing what was near and dear to him and what is near and dear to us - driving our cars on the track. That is why it impacts us so much.

That said, we cannot second guess our driving when we're out there. Doubt, hesitation, being unsure -- they have no place on the track. Yes, the 'self preservation' chip should be active when we drive out there, but we should be confident and sure of what we're doing.

The reason I state this is because what happened to Ben, and what has been written here leads me to believe that many (including myself) will approach our next event with some hesitancy, and some caution. Caution is good. Being hesitant about something can also be healthy. But once one is committed, being hesitant is NOT good. IE: Be cautious out there, but don't be hesitant or unsure. Drive with confidence, and keep the shiny side up!

-Z.

JCP911S

My $.02

If you are out there worrying and nervous as you drive then you are not enjoying yourself.... maybe find something else as a hobby....

however:

If you are really having fun, but feel that you are somehow being evil or irresponsible by doing DE, I'd say don't worry.... all the posts above lay out the risk envelope pretty well... frankly I've been hurt more on bicycles than 14 years of DE, Instructing, and Racing.

I am alert and intensely focused racing, but have never been "scared"... I feel comfortable with the risk, but personally would NEVER EVER ski, or ride a motorcycle, or fly a private airplane.. I am fundamentally a risk adverse person.

If you really love the DE, consider buying a lower powered track only car. The TT is a safe capable car, but frighteningly fast to drive at the limit (IMHO). You'll have just as much fun in a Carrara, it will be cheaper to drive, and god forbid, if something does happen, it is much better to happen at 120MPH than 160MPH.

Make safety a key element of your program and have fun

Phokaioglaukos

It's all relative. DEs on motorcycles are great fun, too.

sjanes

Everything in your life is only as safe as you make it. I used to be a skydiver until a weird misunderstanding led my wife to believe ( for a few minutes until it was cleared up) that I had been injuried/killed during a jump. I stopped jumping at that point, but not because it wasn't a safe sport.

A well run DE is a very safe environment when people use their heads and respect the track and each other. I just came back from an open lapping day with a group of good guys. Cars ranged from a Viper Comp Coupe and GT-2 to a Honda Civic. No spins, no crashes, just a bunch of like minded people having fun and respecting each other on the track.

I agree with JCP911S that if you are scared on the track, then the golf course may be a better place, but also never lose respect for what you're doing. Take whatever safety precautions you feel you need. I have a full cage and harnesses, but I don't use a H&N restraint, while other guys in my group that are faster use a stock seat and seatbelt.

FWIW, the closest I've ever come to getting killed is during my bicycyle commute to work when a Lincon Town Car blew a red and almost collected me in the intersection. Come to think of it, aside from sleeping, DE is pretty much the safest thing I do.

My condolences to the families of those that were lost.

Jaws911

FWIW - I'm a total novice DE guy (one or two a year, tops - in cab, no less) - I've been thinking for a while I just want to limit my DE's here in the east to Pocono North (about a mile banked, and five realtively slow infield turns w/ no armco), on street tires, for all the reasons mentioned above.

But I do think there is one more reason that DE's make you safer over all that has not been mentioned - and that is the ability to get your ya-yas out in the safest place possible. It's hard to imagine owning/ driving one of these cars (even a 'slow' one such as mine) only the street w/o getting carried away in what maybe the wrong place/time. I know that for me, one or two DE's a year goes along way to ease that "Jones".