RJay

I guess I should have been a bit more specific. I was thinking more midcorner in higher speed sections. I was recalling the Eddie Irvine comment in the Schumi video awhile back where he briefly mentions Senna and how he was a master at rapidly modulating the throttle. So, for example, during the period between turn-in+off brake and full throttle, if you wanted to tighten or widen your line, would you:
A) Steer
B) Apply or reduce throttle
C) Both

Larry Herman

To widen your line after turn-in, just unwind the wheel a little more.

To tighten your line after turn-in, pray!

Actually, I find that a really quick burp or 2 (off-on) of the throttle will keep the car rotating and will help tighten your line if your initial turn-in was not sufficient. I do not advocate driving corners that way in general, just if you have to make a correction.

M758

Throttle first, then steer if needed.

DCLee

Personally, my style can best be described as a combination of smoothness and sedation

[img] http://forums.rennlist.com/upload/gt...ay05_de_07.jpg [img/]


Lee in D.C.

Juan Lopez

IMHO, depends on the car (tires, suspension, powerband), the turn and the track. Big sweepers must be smooth, tight turns very agressive. At least on my little old clunker !

Professor Helmüt Tester

You will never be truly fast until you learn to steer with your feet. Unfortunately, in-car video does a lousy job of showing that.

If you stay within your 'comfort zone' anywhere during a qualifying lap, you aren't going fast enough.

Premier Motorsp

Prof Tester said--

You will never be truly fast until you learn to steer with your feet. Unfortunately, in-car video does a lousy job of showing that.

If you stay within your 'comfort zone' anywhere during a qualifying lap, you aren't going fast enough.


This is 100% right. The combination of foot steering and steering wheel steering means that the steering wheel is going to move a great deal.

IMHO, Cory F looks a little too relaxed during that qualifying lap at Cal Spdway. Of course, I don't know the particulars of driving on those GAC Hoosier slicks.

I would expect to see a lot more steering wheel movement and more hacking on the throttle. I was really surprised not to hear a throttle application at the end of the 5th gear chicane. There is time for a quick blast there.

Chris Cervelli
Premier Motorsports

JCP911S

There is an optimum slip angle on the tires. If you are below that, you are not cornering at max speed... if you are beyond that, you are just scrubbing speed. Getting to that sweet spot to me seems to be a proper balance of momentum, line, and steering angle.

You can kind of feel it in your wrists when the steering seems to lighten up.... I call it it "getting up on its toes".... and yes on those rare occassions when I can find that balance, I really need to kick my effort level up a notch or two.... it isn;t easy.

But that is totally different from throwing the car all over the place and over-driving.... busting the tires loose and getting all crossed up.... that is not the fastest way.

Larry Herman

Right, and that type of driving was never in question. It was how you feel it is fastest, super smooth at the limit of the slip angle of tires, or a little stronger than that, with the car squirming around.

I'm pretty certain that if you don't get the car to squirm, you don't really know how much is left in the tires. You could be "leaving something on the table" and that would be that elusive second or so that we are all looking for.

M758

Car squirming around is fastest, but that is still no excuse to be sloppy. You can be fast and smooth even with car squirming around. In my mind the difference is being Pro active with the car vs reactive. Are the corrections just fine tuning the car at the limit (keeping in the razor edge) or you are you constating saving it from disaster at every turn (just trying to keep it on track).


BTW... I think 90% of folks agree on what is fastest, but that feeling is quite hard to describe and there is were the debate comes in.

joey bagadonuts

While I think most folks will agree that being super smooth is especially important if you drive a low hp, momentum car, I'd suggest it's critical at all levels of auto racing. Take for example Indy qualifying from two weeks ago. Danica Patrick lost the pole when she got squirmy on her first qualifying lap. Her next two trips were super smooth and faster. Had she put down three super smooth qualifying laps, she would've made racing history.

mark kibort

i think there is a big difference of the style and smoothness of a 200+mph indy car on a track with "no" turns vs road racing. check out incar data from Schumacher on a road course and you will be surprised of the steering input (or stuck or any other top drivers. ) to be on the edge is to be fast. controlled agression as was said.

MK

forklift

The post from Larry in the thread about David Murray trailbraking at WG reminded me of this thread.

Ivan Arzola who is considered aggressive (he has driven my car and I can attest to that) had Randy Pobst take his GT3 out at VIR at the Rolex race and he said Randy was much more aggressive with the car than he is. He started the slide at corner entry (rotation). I have also heard a second hand story about Wolf Henzler driving like this (I guess all the pros do). Apparently the guy that Wolf took out drove a GT3 Cup and he almost puked after three laps.

Randy writes hear to slow down to go faster, yet likes oversteer on entry, so everything is relative I guess: http://www.randypobst.com/index.cfm?..._sql=Position:

When I was at Mid-Ohio a few weeks ago for the first time I was sliding all over the place (RA-1s), and was often correcting. This is a quote from Redline Man earlier in this thread, “I don't know if there is any way to drive a track like Mid Ohio and not be assertive. Driving quickly there is an intense study in managing slip angles constantly. I'm not sure it is possible to be quick and buttery smooth there.”

Here is a video from a session where I had too much speed going into T1. I trailbraked, but felt at the time that lifting was the answer and it worked out ok, although common sense said I should have immediately gone to the gas. http://members.rennlist.com/forklift/Mid-O%2006.wmv Also, my inputs are slightly exaggerated due to the super slow RSA rack (or at least more than what they would be with a “regular” rack).

Interesting discussion here and I guess it is all relative. Randy says to slow down to speed up, yet likes oversteer on entry and Ivan says he is very aggressive. I hope I can ride with a pro someday to see this. The onboards really don’t show it, or at least I can’t see it.

RSRRacer

My vote for what its worth is super smooth

Traffic53

interesting. i was lucky enough to have randy drive my car around Autobahn CC while i sat and watched. it was different than i'm used to, for sure. he threw the 993 around pretty aggressively- almost violently, slides and all. he only had 4 or 5 timed laps in my car. but he is a pro, and he was a factory 911 driver, so i suspect he was resonably comfortable with the machine. i say this to say his style for those few laps produced a lap that was 2 sec. slower than my quickest that day. this is not to say that i can drive a car anywhere in the same ballpark that pobst can. he was probably just having some fun, driving at 7/10 or so. but it felt fast, and it felt like he was trying to make it around as quick as possible. but he slid the car around and drove pretty aggressively, compared to my driving which is more of the smooth variety.

i vote smooth.