I recently purchased a 928 track car that has only been used for DE's. The current harness in the car is stamped 1995. Eventhough I don't plan to do any club racing, only DE's and autocrosses, I see no reason not to follow race rules when it comes to safety. So that means these belts are way too old.

The OMP drivers seat in this car is trashed, and 10+ years old. I have a pair of Recaro Pole Positions on the way. Now onto the harness. The mount shown below is bolted to the bottom of the rollbar for the outside lap belts. The inner mount is bolted to the transmission tunnel.

My questions:
1. Will I be able to re-use these mounts with current FIA harness's?
2. These are only 4-point belts - what is the best way to mount the 5th & 6th sub belt? Bolted to the floor?

I still have a lot of cleanup to do. It's been in storage for a while.

 

Though it varies from region to region, for DE's, harnesses are typically good for 10 years, so techinally, it would be legit till the end of this year.

That said, you have used belts with an unknown history. I highly recommend replacing them.

From the pictures, the mounting points look fine.

My $0.42,
-Z.

 

From what I can see in the pics the shoulder belts are threaded incorrectly. The tail must come back through the slider to lock the belt.

http://www.pca.org/pca/clubrace/docs/pca_rules_2005.pdf

As Z says I would replace them or have them re-webed (I'm not sure about Pyrotech, Diest does re-web check with Laurette at Stable)

http://www.stableenergies.com/home.asp

Have a good welder look at those added on brackets and re-weld if necesary. Harnesses without a sub-strap are pretty much worthless, the sub is bolted through the floor with large (very large) backing washers.

You may want to consider seats with harness holes in them.

 

Hmmm...

10 years is usually the cutoff for DE use. You may note that the belts look to be in very good condition with no visibile wear, stretching, fading, fraying, etc., and decide to keep them. This may be fine in the actual sense. You may "get caught" in tech, or you may not. The "gamble" either way is up to you.

The mount pics are acutally too close up to tell where they are in relation to the seat. The mounts themselves look to be sufficient in strength for the job, but I can't tell their position. For optimum performance, lap belt mounts must be placed such that the lap belt rises up to cross the pelvic region (iliac crests) at between a 45-60 dergree angle down from HORIZONTAL. You need to split the difference between holding the lower torso back in the seat and down in the seat. Having a component of both directions of containment is important.

It looks like one of the mounts is back where the diagonal bar intersects the roll hoop at its base. This would seem to make it too far back to achieve the "approach angles" mentioned above. You might be better off using the OE holes.

As Al P mentions, the shoulder straps need to me threaded one more time, if you can do it. The slots in some 3-bar clips are too narrow to allow this, but you should try, even to the point of using a poker and pliers to force the material through. Use this threading scheme (below). Also, when you get done, use some SFI - 45.1 high density padding to create "fences" so the belts will not slip laterally on the belt bar. I use 4-5" pieces (outside and between the belt loops) and gear drive hose clamps.



That should get you thinking. More info will get you more advice!

 

Thanks for the advice - Time to start harness shopping. I found an empty spot Memorial Weekend at Road America with the Chicago PCA, so I've got some work to do.

How are these?
Click here for the belts I'm looking at
To attach these belts to my existing mounts, what option do I need? The Clip-In or Bolt-In? I'm assuming I have "Bolt-In" mounts already in my car. Just want to make sure before I order.
The Sub-Belt option, is the duel a 6-point vs a 5-point? The Recaro I'm ordering there is a 5th sub hole, what option do I want?


Here are more pics of my setup to answer the question of the mount vs seat location:

 

Hey;

Looks to be about 45 degrees. I prefer bolt in ends to clips, but I guess clips work. YOU SHOULD NEVER USE 3-BAR SLIDERS ON LAP BELT TERMINALS IF POSSIBLE. You'd be stunned how far they slide when tensioned! Get sewn in ends!!!

For the sub, if you use a single then any seat hole will do. A single should be mounted about 10 degrees (2-3") forward of "the jewels." If you want to use a direct mount double (which is the best system currently available), then you really need a wide seat hole so that the sub straps will rest snugly on your inner thighs. Said hole should also be directly under "your boys" for this type of sub.

Getting there?

 

You lost me here. If this has something to do with the belts in the picture - I am not going to use these. I'm probably going to order the 6-point Sabelt.

The Recaro Pole Position is listed as a 6-point seat. I'm going to assume the opening is as wide as possible on this seat.
I know of a few Corvette C5 owners that use a Hybrid Schroth setup with their stock seats. They sit on the sub belts, wrap up around their thighs.
Is this a better way to go?
Can any 6-point system be used like this? I could bolt another loop next to the fastner that is alrady there for the lap belt. Or am I better off just running the belts down to the floor?

 

Under PCA and POC rules you would need new belts after 5 years. The Sabelts and Sparco belt distributed today from Europe are 5 years. I have not seen any 10 year belts. I agree with the others here, these belts are threaded wrong and the mounting is suspect. It would not be too difficult to mount this stuff correctly with some new belts and seats.

 

I was just making the point that lap belts attached to their mounting tabs should be PERMANENTLY SEWN IN, not use 3-bar sliders like the old ones in your pics. These sliders will do exactly that. They slide a TREMENDOUS amount. They will slip until the loop over the mount point tightens up completely. This is another point; you want as little slack AROUND a mount tube or slider as possible while still allowing it to rotate to proper position. The slider will not stop slipping until any slack here is taken up.

NO! The sub must be TAUGHT when your belts are tightened. This requires any cradle arrangment where you are sitting on the sub to be very tight as well. This can be uncomfortable. Any sub that is not tight negates the effectiveness of its purpose and presence. Subs must be adjusted so they are just as tight as the rest of the belts in order that they take up quickly.

Yes. However, if you do a critical analysis of how much room for "the kids" each type of sub offers, you will see in short order the efficacy of any T-bar or the Schroth Hybrid setup. If you sit on a sub, it must still be tight, and rearward mounted. If you mount it forward down through the seat base, it will not cut into your groin so much.

You should be able to answer this one yourself now. Hint... the latter.