Grand-Am Cup race results
05-04-2005, 02:50 PM
#16
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One of the 350Z's failed post qualifying tech on Saturday. Was unable to find out what the infraction was.
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Brian Bailey
Autometrics Motorsports Porsche 996 - Grand-Am Cup #45
'87 Porsche 944 Turbo - PCA GT3s
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Brian Bailey
Autometrics Motorsports Porsche 996 - Grand-Am Cup #45
'87 Porsche 944 Turbo - PCA GT3s
05-04-2005, 02:55 PM
#17
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I figured the 350 had to have something else going on.
Nahhh, i dont think Maxwell and Empringham are chopped liver, its just they arent the best around like a auberlen, Pobst, henzler, said, marks (now) and some others. their times were pretty standard for top club guys. a 1:39-1:40 is a darn good time in anything in the power range of GAC. However, its not earth shaking, and those two i dont think have spent much time at Laguna, and certainly not quick studies like a Henzler. (ie SpeedGT running 1:31 in a cup car on dots with the engine upgrade) . some friends i run with in the vipers, (stock street cars with A/C and radios etc, can click off a 1:38 on dots, while at stock weights of 3300+lbs, stock suspension, but larger tires, etc (ie John Dearing). The key thing about GAC, is not the pure lap time, its keeping you nose clean and running consistant 1:41s all race long. proven by the early lead by the mustang, while punishing his tires, and then looing 3 spots due to tire cooking.
and of course, with GAC, im sure pit mistakes are HUGE.
Yes, i know the reason for them hitting the brake, it was they thought their car couldnt handle the speed. it wasnt a setting the fronts braking action, it was a long drag slow down brake, where guys with more knowledge of laguna would gather them up. you dont need to use brakes in that section. none of the speed gt cars touch there brakes there, and they run 8 seconds faster!
I know what your hinting at, but thats not the case. laguna is really about turn 6 and 9. after that, most can figure the rest out in a day or two. Ive seen damn good drivers tap brakes and cause big spins (ie Galati in the audi) where pobst, wouldnt make a wiggle and never touched the brakes, even on his flyer laps! if you know laguna, you know what im talking about.
these mustangs with all that power, should be 1-2 seconds faster than they are, even with a solid axle. (my opinion)
Mk
Nahhh, i dont think Maxwell and Empringham are chopped liver, its just they arent the best around like a auberlen, Pobst, henzler, said, marks (now) and some others. their times were pretty standard for top club guys. a 1:39-1:40 is a darn good time in anything in the power range of GAC. However, its not earth shaking, and those two i dont think have spent much time at Laguna, and certainly not quick studies like a Henzler. (ie SpeedGT running 1:31 in a cup car on dots with the engine upgrade) . some friends i run with in the vipers, (stock street cars with A/C and radios etc, can click off a 1:38 on dots, while at stock weights of 3300+lbs, stock suspension, but larger tires, etc (ie John Dearing). The key thing about GAC, is not the pure lap time, its keeping you nose clean and running consistant 1:41s all race long. proven by the early lead by the mustang, while punishing his tires, and then looing 3 spots due to tire cooking.
and of course, with GAC, im sure pit mistakes are HUGE.
Yes, i know the reason for them hitting the brake, it was they thought their car couldnt handle the speed. it wasnt a setting the fronts braking action, it was a long drag slow down brake, where guys with more knowledge of laguna would gather them up. you dont need to use brakes in that section. none of the speed gt cars touch there brakes there, and they run 8 seconds faster!
I know what your hinting at, but thats not the case. laguna is really about turn 6 and 9. after that, most can figure the rest out in a day or two. Ive seen damn good drivers tap brakes and cause big spins (ie Galati in the audi) where pobst, wouldnt make a wiggle and never touched the brakes, even on his flyer laps! if you know laguna, you know what im talking about.
these mustangs with all that power, should be 1-2 seconds faster than they are, even with a solid axle. (my opinion)
Mk
Originally Posted by Greg Fishman
Take it with a grain of salt but a former 350z team said the 350z you see currently running are "cheater" cars. Maybe it was because they didn't have the "factory" engine which I never knew existed. They had theirs built at Menards.
You really think Maxwell and Empringham are chopped liver? Gue/Gennette aren't exactly club racers....
I don't care where the hit (or not) the brake for turn 9. Do you know why they hit the brake? Was it to get some front grip? were they also on the gas?
You really think Maxwell and Empringham are chopped liver? Gue/Gennette aren't exactly club racers....
I don't care where the hit (or not) the brake for turn 9. Do you know why they hit the brake? Was it to get some front grip? were they also on the gas?
05-04-2005, 02:56 PM
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The Mustangs are very fast and quite a handful to drive. Whats amazing is that the frontrunners drive their cars sideways through just about every corner and never seem to run out of tires. My guess is the frontrunners are sandbagging quite a bit (and thats the only reason the 350Z kept them in sight at Fontana on the straights). Thats the only way I can explain the way they are driven though an entire race and the fact that their laptimes don't fall off as you'd expect them to.
All the Mustangs aren't fast. I tailed the #47 that finished 10th in the race for most of my stint and got out of the car a few spots ahead of him. He couldn't get away from me (though I couldn't get by him), we simply were faster in different areas. He'd walk me on the straights and I'd kill him under braking. Now the factory car with Empringham, etc driving, thats a different matter altogether. The #55 came by me between T6 and the Corkscrew so fast I thought I had hit the brakes heading up that hill.
PS - there are quite a few former club racers running in GAC presently.
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Brian Bailey
Autometrics Motorsports Porsche 996 - Grand-Am Cup #45
'87 Porsche 944 Turbo - PCA GT3s
All the Mustangs aren't fast. I tailed the #47 that finished 10th in the race for most of my stint and got out of the car a few spots ahead of him. He couldn't get away from me (though I couldn't get by him), we simply were faster in different areas. He'd walk me on the straights and I'd kill him under braking. Now the factory car with Empringham, etc driving, thats a different matter altogether. The #55 came by me between T6 and the Corkscrew so fast I thought I had hit the brakes heading up that hill.
PS - there are quite a few former club racers running in GAC presently.
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Brian Bailey
Autometrics Motorsports Porsche 996 - Grand-Am Cup #45
'87 Porsche 944 Turbo - PCA GT3s
05-04-2005, 03:08 PM
#19
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Brians right! Im sure there is a knack to driving a solid axle car fast there. it was pretty cool to see the "stangs" driving through turn 10 pitched a little !. actually, most the cars were sliding around a bit.
speaking of club racers, anders hainer did real well . I think he was sharing the BMW with joey Hand, as a replacement for Boris Said. anyway, ive been at events with Anders. he is a darn good driver, top club guy, and now he certainly is running with the pros well. hey, there are good club guys and good pros. all these guys have to start somewhere, and whomever has it and uses it often, usually gets pretty fast pretty quickly.
the guy that impressed me the most and i wanted to meet , was that guy that had never been in a race car, and decided to run 24hours of daytona in SGS last year (or the year before) anyway, he is now running pretty close to the same times as the other seasoned pros. (see Tafel racing) they did a piece on him on TV and it was amazing to think, he bypassed all the club racing license work and got a pro license with some intense training from a pro that became his co-driver and later he ditched him and is running with "Davis" now.
mk
speaking of club racers, anders hainer did real well . I think he was sharing the BMW with joey Hand, as a replacement for Boris Said. anyway, ive been at events with Anders. he is a darn good driver, top club guy, and now he certainly is running with the pros well. hey, there are good club guys and good pros. all these guys have to start somewhere, and whomever has it and uses it often, usually gets pretty fast pretty quickly.
the guy that impressed me the most and i wanted to meet , was that guy that had never been in a race car, and decided to run 24hours of daytona in SGS last year (or the year before) anyway, he is now running pretty close to the same times as the other seasoned pros. (see Tafel racing) they did a piece on him on TV and it was amazing to think, he bypassed all the club racing license work and got a pro license with some intense training from a pro that became his co-driver and later he ditched him and is running with "Davis" now.
mk
Originally Posted by BBailey
The Mustangs are very fast and quite a handful to drive. Whats amazing is that the frontrunners drive their cars sideways through just about every corner and never seem to run out of tires. My guess is the frontrunners are sandbagging quite a bit (and thats the only reason the 350Z kept them in sight at Fontana on the straights). Thats the only way I can explain the way they are driven though an entire race and the fact that their laptimes don't fall off as you'd expect them to.
All the Mustangs aren't fast. I tailed the #47 that finished 10th in the race for most of my stint and got out of the car a few spots ahead of him. He couldn't get away from me (though I couldn't get by him), we simply were faster in different areas. He'd walk me on the straights and I'd kill him under braking. Now the factory car with Empringham, etc driving, thats a different matter altogether. The #55 came by me between T6 and the Corkscrew so fast I thought I had hit the brakes heading up that hill.
PS - there are quite a few former club racers running in GAC presently.
__________________
Brian Bailey
Autometrics Motorsports Porsche 996 - Grand-Am Cup #45
'87 Porsche 944 Turbo - PCA GT3s
All the Mustangs aren't fast. I tailed the #47 that finished 10th in the race for most of my stint and got out of the car a few spots ahead of him. He couldn't get away from me (though I couldn't get by him), we simply were faster in different areas. He'd walk me on the straights and I'd kill him under braking. Now the factory car with Empringham, etc driving, thats a different matter altogether. The #55 came by me between T6 and the Corkscrew so fast I thought I had hit the brakes heading up that hill.
PS - there are quite a few former club racers running in GAC presently.
__________________
Brian Bailey
Autometrics Motorsports Porsche 996 - Grand-Am Cup #45
'87 Porsche 944 Turbo - PCA GT3s
05-04-2005, 03:10 PM
#20
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Mark,
I see what you are saying and I have been to L.Seca but never raced there (Spec Miata) so my brake points (few) don't really match up to what a fast car might see. Anywho... with only two practices and a short qualifying session, I am sure many didn't get enough time to get everything out of the track they could have. It should be interesting to see what happens at Mid Ohio with the Mustang and Porsche battles. I hope my comment about club racers in GAC wasn't taken wrong, I was just saying that the Multimatic guys are not weekend warriors and to beat them you are going to need more than just luck, regardless of what car you are in.
I see what you are saying and I have been to L.Seca but never raced there (Spec Miata) so my brake points (few) don't really match up to what a fast car might see. Anywho... with only two practices and a short qualifying session, I am sure many didn't get enough time to get everything out of the track they could have. It should be interesting to see what happens at Mid Ohio with the Mustang and Porsche battles. I hope my comment about club racers in GAC wasn't taken wrong, I was just saying that the Multimatic guys are not weekend warriors and to beat them you are going to need more than just luck, regardless of what car you are in.
05-04-2005, 03:19 PM
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I hear you ! its just ive seen the quick studies attack laguna. the only thing i had against the back markers at Laguna in SpeedGT was knowlege of the track. I could see the top guys that hadnt been there before vs the new clubish guys in their comp coupe vipers. it was obvious to see the difference the good guys picked it up REAL fast. Just like when i went to Road America with PCA, i probably was one of the guys in my pack where they said "ah, Kibort's braking at the kink, ill get him next time!" (and they did!) thats a track where you can defininitely learn it eventually, but some of those turns have some pucker factor! (like willow springs turn 8-9, where ill probably never have the car or the chances (or guts) to ever master that set of turns!)
the interesting thing about GAC, is their best times and spread of times, are almost identical to Speed Touring cars. (and some of those drivers like Sofronas, were in GAC, so its really the car and set up differences)
in fact, the Speed touring cars did get a 1:38 in qualifying, but were in the 1:39s and 40s for the best guys in the race. (and running 235x40x17s DOTs)
Mk
the interesting thing about GAC, is their best times and spread of times, are almost identical to Speed Touring cars. (and some of those drivers like Sofronas, were in GAC, so its really the car and set up differences)
in fact, the Speed touring cars did get a 1:38 in qualifying, but were in the 1:39s and 40s for the best guys in the race. (and running 235x40x17s DOTs)
Mk
Originally Posted by Greg Fishman
Mark,
I see what you are saying and I have been to L.Seca but never raced there (Spec Miata) so my brake points (few) don't really match up to what a fast car might see. Anywho... with only two practices and a short qualifying session, I am sure many didn't get enough time to get everything out of the track they could have. It should be interesting to see what happens at Mid Ohio with the Mustang and Porsche battles. I hope my comment about club racers in GAC wasn't taken wrong, I was just saying that the Multimatic guys are not weekend warriors and to beat them you are going to need more than just luck, regardless of what car you are in.
I see what you are saying and I have been to L.Seca but never raced there (Spec Miata) so my brake points (few) don't really match up to what a fast car might see. Anywho... with only two practices and a short qualifying session, I am sure many didn't get enough time to get everything out of the track they could have. It should be interesting to see what happens at Mid Ohio with the Mustang and Porsche battles. I hope my comment about club racers in GAC wasn't taken wrong, I was just saying that the Multimatic guys are not weekend warriors and to beat them you are going to need more than just luck, regardless of what car you are in.
