38D

This will be my first year Club Racing. I have about 80 DE days, with about 35 being in Black or higher.

I do agree with the time analysis suggestion, but I think your spread can be much higher than 106-7%. In fact, I think the criteria should be not getting lapped by the leaders. Take Watkins Glen. The best E/F folks run in the 2:12 range. So long as you can run in 2:25 range you won't get lapped. At Lime Rock, the bar would be more like 1:05 (vs. the leaders at ~1:02). I saw a nasty accident at last year's SCCA regionals at Lime Rock when the leader came on a lapped car at the downhill, and tried to pass the guy on the inside. The slower guy never saw him and both cars were totalled. IMHO huge dispariates in speed can more easily lead to incidents.

MarkM

The only downside that I have experienced in club racing the last two years is that I can't stand DE's anymore.

Yes, I like to see all my friends, and I even enjoy instructing. But when I am on someone's tail going into turn 12 at Road Atlanta, it takes all I have not to pass him/her on the inside.

My wife enjoys DE's so I can't say no, but I'd rather spend the money and the rubber on real lapping days.

Larry Herman

Yeah, that's exactly my problem. Now that my older boys are running in DE's I thought that getting the GT3 would assuage my hunger for racing, but it was only a very temporary fix. But it would be very hard to leave them behind while I go racing again...but they are all in favour of it. We'll see about next year.

MJR911

Larry, don't you see.... they want you to go racing so THEY can go racing!

roketman

mike,
I think there are a lot of people who feel the same way you do. A lot of people want to racers.
Clearly there is no substitute for expreience/ seat time.My feeling is to hone your driving skills to your max,than learn how to race.It is 2 different animales.
When club racing started there was really very few people who had ligitamate racing behind them. What most of the pca drivers did have however was a real lot of D.E. seat time.A large # of them had 100's of track days.My point is ,there were alot of very good drivers ,who were really ready to move on to racing.The problem today is that you only need 8 D.E.s to apply for a racing lic.
I say drive,drive drive.Get rides with the the best drivers ,this will really speed up your learning and help you develop your sense of speed.Be intune to all the driving inputs, braking, gas pedal ,balancing the car and vision.Have them go for rides with you as well and be open to the learning process. If you can ever find Keith Peare (nnjr) have him drive your car and go for a ride with you ,because he is clearly the most talented driver in pca /racing.
Remember is all about having fun,and the fun is in the learning.
have fun and good luck. my o2 cents Ron

Greg Fishman

I don't know Keith from Adam but that is a bold statement considering some of the talent I have seen in PCA.
What class does he run in?

38D

So true. I've ridden with Keith at Watkins Glen and his cornering speed is unholy (as you would expect from a 2.8L 914 that does 2:00 lap times). He barely brakes for the busstop, and then is just flying down the hill. He also barely brakes into T1, which is just wrong. It's so fast that is barely seems real. I've ridden with many good drivers, but Keith is different.

38D

GT4R. Go look at 2003 results from Watkins Glen. Keith is normally is 4-6+ seconds fast PER LAP than the next guy in his class. He also has the fastest lap time ever (56.1) at Lime Rock regardless of class.

MJR911

Too bad the US is so big.... I'd like to see some of the regional drivers square off. I think Tim McKenzie would give Keith a race atleast. They run the same class and car but different areas.

Greg Fishman

I agree that Tim Mckenzie or maybe Gary Boss would be a good challenge for Keith. I hope my first comment wasn't taken the wrong way, just saying that there are some talented racers in PCA.

JCP911S

Mikew968.... I would make a distinction between "ready to race" and "ready to experience racing."

IMHO, if you are not at least a black group instructor, you probably still too far up the learning curve to be "ready" to race in PCA racing. Gross generalization, but probably true.

However if racing is your goal, it will not hurt you to try it before then. There is alot more to racing than driving, and you can start the learning process as you continue to work on your driving in DE. I believe the "racing experience" will likely speed up your learning.

Get opinions from some of the instructors in your club that race. If they think you are not over your head, you may be ok. Just go in humble, set realistic goals, do not do anything you are not comfortable doing, and let the lapping cars through safely. Drive in a controlled predictable mannor, and make sure you are not a hazzard.

mikew968

Thanks for all the imput!!!

I think I will run the spring and summer DE's while continuing to develope my skills and finish prepping the car. If all goes well and others' asessment of my skill level are in agreement I think I will do Putnam Park in September as I have more experience there than anywhere.

Thanks, Mike

dave morris

Mike,

I agree with pretty much all that has been said. The one thing I might add: Some instructors are better than others at really helping you go faster. It sounds like you are already going fast. That's good. But if you ask around in your region, I'll bet there is a very small handful of instructors that will really help you go faster. It's a special skill set. Not all instructors have it. Not all instructors want to do it. He/she will have tons of seat time, probably racing experience, a willingness to take some additional risk and, importantly, confidence in you. The confidence part is important because he/she will be sitting next to you while telling you to keep your foot in it in turns you may not now be taking at full throttle. He/she will be telling you to brake farther down the track than you may now be braking. He/she will encourage you to carry more speed into turns than you may currently be carrying. You get the idea. Very few instructors are interested in or willing to take students to 9/10ths.

You may already be doing all these and other things needed to go fast. If so, his/her confirmation of your skills will help confirm your decision about going racing. If not, he/she will help you get there much sooner.

Good luck. And oh yeah, about time to join Rennlist?

Dave

38D

I 100% agree that there are some very talented drivers in PCA. Here's the one race I could find where all three showed up.

2002 Mid Ohio
Place, Person, Class, Best Lap Time, Difference
#1 Peare, Keith GT4R 1:35.06
#2 Boss, Gary GT4R 1:35.557 (+8.053 seconds total)
#3 McKenzie, Tim GT4R 1:37.579 (+35.547 seconds total)

As another data point, Gary's best at Watkins Glen is in the 2:04s. I'm pretty sure that Keith broke 2:00 back at the 50/50, but I can't find any results on that). Keith is probably best at Watkins Glen and/or Lime Rock as these are his "home" tracks.

Anyway, they could all bitch slap me around if I were in a GT2 and they were driving a fully loaded 1972 Impala wagon.

JCP911S

Mike. To expand on what Dave Morris said, I almost believe you need to get to a point where you are your own best instructor.

By all means get all the imput you can from instructors with racing experience, but you really can't (and probably shouldn't) be driving at competitive racing speeds with a passenger.... and at some point, the feedback loop between you, the track and the car is so short that only you can really analyze it and find that last 10%.

This is why I tend to believe that time instructing is really an important prep for racing successfully.

That said, you have to start at the back before you can start at the front, so as long as you are consistent and in control, you don't have to be the fastest guy out there to gain valuable experience racing.

The key to racing is understanding YOUR limit and consistently driving at YOUR limit.