fatbillybob

Geo and John,

I agree with you guys 100%. It is that whole system thing. I agree with the comfort of the new full containment seats. I am currently researching seats. I have a hard time paying big bucks for metal Ultra shield but like John says it appears to have all the right stuff. I like the Recaro spg pro hans but it is still fiberglass and only has 5 holes so the 6 point sub has to either go in the center hole or parachute via the lap belt holes. I think the consensous was that the 2 extra rear anti sub holes are the best way to go for best pelvis control. Are there any others or the Ultra shield the only way? That Ultra shield weights a ton too. My carbon OMP shell is like 8 lbs! but just a seat no wings no great shoulder support and only 5 holes. I think with the cage I have 300-400lbs of safety gear.

gbaker

Nothing was done to alleviate the problem. Adding high-friction surfaces and “wings” is just an attempt to minimize the phenomena. They have been trying to solve this problem for 15 years. It is a characteristic inherent to the design.

Belts coming off on tests sleds has been well documented. Racers are more concerned about belts coming off on racers, such as Barrichello, Sato and Wilson. Barrichello claims it caused him to crash, and Wilson was bounced around the cockpit so much he jammed a nerve and had to be air lifted to the hospital—without crashing. Hang around the pits with the formula guys and they will tell you the the belts can slide off. Does it happen all the time? No. Does it happen? Yes.

True, the effective length of the HANS tethers is shortened by the rearward motion of the structure.

RJay

So do I and I'd add that this thread has convinced me to get an H&R. I feel compelled to observe, however, that safety extends to virtually every aspect of the car itself. I hope people are this meticulous when it comes to worrying about the condition and quality of their bearings, torsion tube mounts, mono *****, etc. And I hope that wearing an H&R doesn't make them think that it mitgates the responsibility to check rotors for cracks, examine pads and looking over the car in between sessions. Having seen a number of crashes that were mechanically related, I'd simply observe the obvious that surviving a crash is a good thing, but not a tenth as good as not having it in the first place.

John Veninger

Yes! and we all hope that our safety equipment is never put to the test!! Safety equipment is like insurance, you always guessing if you have enough.

To bad I did a minor test mine at one time and hope to never do that again.

ltc

John,
You sound a bit like Yoda in your reply
I agree, the psychological implication may outweigh the physical benefits.

One other item which still bothers me a bit:

It would appear (to me anyways) that the (re)introduction of the 'wings' has brought back the issue of 2" vs 3" shoulder belts and the HANS to the forefront again.
It looks as though the 'wings' would tend to force the inside edges of 3" shoulder belts closer to (and hopefully not in contact with) the sides of your neck. Obviously, much less of an issue with the 3-2" HANS specific shoulder harnesses.
As I noted in a previous post, Ryan Newman apparently had a different shouler harness design from Schroth; it was 3" down to maybe 2.5" (definitely not 2" like the commercially available HANS specific Schroth harnesses). Perhaps this was a response to the 'wings'?

ltc

FBB,
I went with the 2" lap belts, independent of whether or not PCA has (finally) approved this, as has most all other sanctioning bodies.
I ended up with the same seat (XL version for fat asses like myself) and harness arrangement as the factory puts in Cup cars.....figured it can't be that wrong if Weissach does it.

gbaker

Most perceptions are a product of reality. See post #43 here: http://www.teamjuicyracing.com/forum...read.php?t=185