Geo

Yes.

FWIW, I bought my system because I got a KILLER deal. Otherwise I was about to flip a coin. Honestly, I don't know that any one is particularly better or worse. With the Firecharger, it's user refillable, but the pressurizing is external (a downside to me).

Roll the dice I guess.

Greg Fishman

Even if I had a well designed system, I think it would be prudent to keep a small halon extinquisher within reach.

RedlineMan

Indeed, Greg;

The Cup Car I tend has both the OE SPA system, and a hand held within reach. I never quite trust eletrical stuff to work!

Greg Fishman

Exactly my thoughts! As an Eagle Scout I still live by the "Be Prepared" motto as well as the "better safe than sorry" one.

Eric in Chicago

Eagle Scout!!??!! Did you get your racing badge in ES??
Hope your having a great holiday season Greg!!

BTW, I have a SPA 5lb ele. system, set it off last season by accident (crossed some wires) The refill from Pegasus(Wi) was close to $400 for the 5lb bottle and they could not ship the refilled container because of some law passed last year. I could not find a single Halon dealer in Chicagoland that would do the refill. Keep that in mind when picking out your system, buy from someone local and ask about the refill price if you go with halon

Alan C.

Come on Greg, I've seen you in drinking situations

911GT3RS

Hi, new to the boards..I came across this thread and thought I should offer a bit of advice to all of you. I also am a professional firefighter/paramedic so I feel I should offer up my knowledge. The systems that are most widley used and are talked abotu here have been
- AFFF, or Aqueous Film Forming Foam, a liquid.
- Halon, pretty much outlawed in the US and
- Class ABC Dry Chem, which is what comes with most SpA systems.
- And lastly FireAde which as I'm concerned is in it's own perfomance class.

AFFF, and the FireAde will be the best choice in fire suppression as both cool and separate fuel from ignition source very well, but do weigh more.

Halon, is an excellent choice for electrical fiire, it extinguishes by separating the oxidizier, air, from the fire. But unless yoy get out of the environment within a reasonable amount of time, it can cause unconsiousness within a short time period. And it also is basically one time use with probably no chance of a recharge. So if it saves the car, you will be buying a new system.

And the ABC Dry Chem, this is what comes standard on most if not all Porsches. Excellent extigushing meduim, doesn't weigh a whole lot, but it does have one drawback. Being a powder it settles, and as vibration from car and track go through it, it settles and packs. When set off it will not, in most cases, go off in a smooth flow, and or spray. It comes out kind of chunky and intermittently. The only way to avaoid this is to remove and rotate the bottle or shake it up from time to time to prevent this, or to break it up.

I hope this helps, let me know or e-mail me if you have any other questions, I will try to answer it to the best of my knowldege. And if all else fails. Contact Ansul, they can answer just about any question you could ever have.

Geo

Halon is NOT illegal in the US. The manufacture of Halon is, but existing stocks may continue to be used and recovered. There currently are supposed to be plenty of Halon stocks.

SpA uses AFFF

That's a new one on me. Are you certain of that? It's not how I understand it.

Greg Fishman

And I always have something to drink, right?

wildbill846

That's exactly how I've always understood it. Halon puts out a fire by taking away the O2 from it. Of course, the fire is not the only one in the car that needs some O2, and that's my reservation against using Halon.

We use a Halon (trade name for monobromotrifluoromethane for the chemistry buffs) system on the helicopter I fly. To quote a warning in the CH-46E NATOPS manual, "Vapors from the fire extinguisher agent, monobromotrifluoromethane (MBTM),while not poisonous, can cause asphyxiation through reduction of oxygen, especially in confined spaces...All personnel should stand clear and in the open air. If the helicopter is on the ground, the cabin should be vacated as a precautionary measure."

Bill
(writing from Iraq)

APKhaos

Hey Bill, if you still have some on-line time for us it would be great to hear your take on the relative effectiveness of Halon vs the aqueous foaming agents [AFFF, Fire Ade]. I seem to remember you had some good technical insight on how the foams act on the fire triangle vs halon.

First Cup race in late Feb, so you need to get some weight out of the Hummer and run some laps around the base perimeter road. Keep the armour between you and the bad actors, OK?

Geo

That much I understand. However, my question you quoted was regarding having to replace a Halon system after one use. I don't think that is correct, but I could certainly be wrong.

On another note, many thanks to you and the rest of your comrades for standing in harm's way for us. Godspeed to you all and I hope you all return home safely soon.

macnewma

I actually mixed up SpA and Safecraft. From my research, I found that SafeCraft had the best solution.

http://www.safecraft.com/MextInstalled.asp

They offer the use of Halon, AFFF, FireAde or F500 (similar to FireAde).

This is probably the best setup for most road racing use:

http://www.safecraft.com/product_pag...&menu=&Search=

It uses either AFFF, FireAde or F500 and is user refillable. It uses a pull cable for reliability. It is similar to the FireCharger setup except it allows the use of FireAde. I spoke to a gentleman at FireCharger and they said that although FireAde would probably work with the FireCharger, they do not support it. All for around $300-400.

They also offer their topline RS model with FireAde, but I am not sure what the other advantages are.

Email SafeCraft, they will get back to you quickly.

Max

wildbill846

Tony,

Yeah, we need to dig up that other thread because I can't remember exactly what I said before. It was along the same lines as our firefighter friend's explanation. Halon is an oxygen scavenger....removes that side of the fire triangle. But you run into a catch-22....not enough ventilation and you suffocate with the fire...enough ventiliation for you to breathe and the fire could reignite. AFFF puts out the fire and forms a barrier (ie. a film) on the fuel source that prevents the other sides of the fire triangle (ignition source, oxygen) from interacting with it.

I don't have anything to back this up, but from my understanding of how these systems put out fires, AFFF would be the best for preventing a re-light.

BTW, I won't be home until after the VIR event. While I won't be ready to race at Lowes, I'll probably be in Charlotte that weekend to pick-up my NSX. I'll visit the 944 Cup guys then and tell my war stories.

Bill

911GT3RS

Okay so I rechecked my sources and did a bit of research, the problem with Halon recharging is going to be finding someone to do it. Halon isn't illegal, but it definetly is going to be a hard one to find, so you will probably be better off buying a new system. AFFF, and FireAde will be your best choices for extiguishing agents. FireAde hands down though, that stuff puts out everything from wood to burning metals. Wildbill here explained it better, I would have gone into the whole fire triangle thing but I wasn't sure how many of you would know what that is, not calling anyone dumb, just trying to avoid confusion.