Kurt R

I've got to disagree with you there. A couple of fingers through the net, or if you have a mesh net you should still be able to get your hand out between the front of the window opening and the net.
A thankyou wave for a good point by is always appreciated too.

Jim Child

I frequently get point bys when lapping slower traffic, and I welcome them. I have no problem seeing an inside-the-car point by, or a finger poke through the window net.

Eric in Chicago

Jim, Your hand must get tired from all the thank you waves

Juan Lopez

I have seen fingers poke out of windows but they were not meant as friendly pass by signs ( )

RedlineMan

Hey Mike (and all);

I did not mean to sound overly pugnacious in my advice, or mean it to sound like passing was to be confrontational. I was trying to convey the idea that you often can cause far more consternation by trying to do something out of the ordinary than just sticking to the standard and accepted line.

Areas where there are side-to-side transitions (many such at Watkins Glen for example) can be tricky, and those passing should be as aware of that as you are. If someone is REALLY crawling up your wastegate, you might stay tracked out and let them go early with a nice signal, providing again that you do not jeopardize your own race. At the same time, if you see someone smoking down on you from a distance, some missile that you might just as soon like to avoid dealing with and/or holding up mid turn (like Norm! ), give them a pass signal so they know you are giving it up for them. Again, if in this last case you would be compromising your own battle, I'd close that door EARLY and let them wait. If you were lucky, they'd foul up your competitor!

If you have a strap net, you can cut out one little section to facilitate signaling. This opening can also be nicely made to coincide with your side mirror view if applicable. Mesh nets would need some sewing done, something an upholstery shop could likely handle.

It is true that the biggest thing to learn is passing. DE guys can be really fast, but they have to LEARN how to pass. Me? I'm used to GETTING passed by almost EVERYBODY, so I am likely pretty well prepared if I ever race. That's why I have a 5-panel Wink mirror!!

brucegre

Hi Mike, great thread. I think everyone's got it right - drive your line, be consistent, and let the faster cars deal with that. There is etiquette, but it pretty much results in not coming over on someone who is clearly up your door, it's not major swings of the car.

The one comment I wanted to add was on the point by. It is great, but be aware that a lot of time either a) the guy behind can't see it or b) when you give it, the guy may already be halfway past on the other side. So it is polite, and keep it up, but expect the unexpected. The most common is for someone to point me by on the outside of a corner exit and come down on me as I come up the inside right after the apex. I'm already half by before the point by comes so I never see it, and if the driver did nothing, we'd both be fine. Which goes back to your original question about tracking out - sure, as long as you're consistent, keep doing it and the faster cars will know where to pass you. The guy who wanted to pass you on the outside AT TRACKOUT would appear to be a candidate for remedial race driver training.

Cheers,
Bruce

Larry Herman

One point that I wanted to mention is to know how the other cars are faster than you. If they have more HP, they typically will be passing at the end of the straight, and in the braking areas. Look for them to dive down the inside and expect someone there when you turn in. Word of advice: leave them room.

If they are faster through the corners, then they will be climbing all over you at trackout, and will probably take an inside exit, because they can, and pass you immediately onto the straight. Word of advice: Maintain your line and stay at trackout until they are past. Sometimes this means taking the inside line on the entrance to the next corner because to move right across the track would cut someone off.

And if they are faster in both ways, then I offer you these three bits of advice:
1) Use your mirrors
2) Use your mirrors
3) Use your mirrors

M758

Mike...
I just finished a 2 hr enduro race at PIR. That is small track and with me in my spec car running 1:14 to 1:15 laps vs Cup cars turing 1:02 to 1:08 for C stock 993 RS... Well I got lap many many times. (I think I was 10 laps down to the leaders)

I know that track quite well and can make it through the corners pretty well. Obviously the lack of power is my big issue.

Anyway.... I gave many point by's during that race. I know that racers will use slower cars picks everynow and then, but also tried to stay out of faster car battles.

My first mindset is to hold my line. When it doubt hold my line. When I see the faster cars coming I rarely slowed down. Why? They could all blow by me down any straight section. What I would do however it point them by when I could. I know that track well know where it easy to pass and where it is not. Turn 9... the hair pin getting on the oval. The exit of oval down the main straight... going into turn 1, Inside at turn 2. Short straight in before big right hand turn 7. and in turn 7.

I also know were it tough pass since there is just little room off line. For example the runs after turn 2 through blind left at the scoring tower. You can do it, but it is hard.

Knowing where you can make passes I expect them in those places and typically point by cars to the inside. This natural since it is the same direction as you make a normal racing pass. When giving a point by I would drive my line, but some time go wide at an apex or turn in a little late as the car was passing. No need to contest any pass. I would however hold my line at corner exit always. I my car if I pinch a corner exit it kills tons of speed and it is rare for a driver to want to pass on the outside at any corner. I certainly would not. I 'd rather pass on the inside at corner exit and I would point by drivers there.

The big thing is to watch you mirrors and drive your line. Don't make way for others, but realize that a faster driver will probably try to make pass like some one racing you would. The key is let them make that first move and then give them space when the decide to take it.

From an overtaking view point bys are great when they are seen as it tells the driver behind that you have seen and the front driver knows you are coming.

My big problem with faster cars is distance. Turn 1 for example is fast and preceeded by a long straight. Cup cars are going 30-40 mph faster than me there. Yet our speeds in the first turn are not that different. (me at 95-100) Them at 115-120? maybe. It was tough to judge if the car that was 5-6 car lengths behind would make up that ground before we go to 1. If not I'd take my line and my apex, but potential close the door. If they were close enough we would get to turn 1 at the same time and I would take my turn in point, but give room at the apex.

I would never however leave room anywhere but the inside to pass. Nobody would feel comfortable about passing around the outside at that corner.


In a series of esses it is best to hold your line until you come to place where passing is easier. Do however watch the mirrors as some one may try a pass anywhere. Of course give them room if they attempt it.

brucegre

Hi Mike - what Larry said, his words are better than mine.

The other area to look, specially if you are still fairly new, is to some of the books out there. I've read most of them, and my favourite to date is the Skip Barber book. It has a great section on racing, passing and being passed - and I found the driving instruction to be the the clearest and most understandable for me.

Enjoy.

Carrera51

Nothing wrong with a point by. I had to give several at the RRII at Daytona because of the huge speed differentials in the 911 Celebration race group. I gave alot of point by signals going into turn 1. The IROC and RSRs rate of closure over my Carrera was extremely quick. As a result I got well experienced at taking the turns 1 and 2 around the outside. Most of the overtaking cars acknowledged me with a wave.

I was also in a situation coming off of turn 2 onto the back straight heading for the chicane where I was locked in a battle for position as a faster car approached from behind. I chose to back off since had I continued to go after the car I was racing with, all three of us could have met at the chicane at the same time. It cost me a possible opportunity to gain a position, but at the time it seemed like the safe thing to do.

You definately learn something with every race.

Z-man

"I'm not a club racer, but I play one on TV!"

Seriously: while I am an avid DE participant, I doubt I'll get into club racing anytime soon. But this post has me intrigued! Discussions like this reveal to me how similar and how different club racing and DE is. Cool stuff!

Netmaniac: if you know that you were driving your line smoothly and predictably, then the competitor that had the little 'chit-chat' with you probably needs to add the following label on his helmet: Objects in Helmet are larger than they appear.

Looking forward to your posts on your continuing development as a club racer - at least I can live vicariously through your exploits!
-Zoltan.

APKhaos

DE is to Racing as Paintball is to Armed Combat.

Carrera51

Tony:
Haven't you said that before?

JCP911S

Best rule of thumb is do the most logical thing in the situation... there really are no hard and fast "Rules" in racing... just good judgement and bad judgement.... alot of that is just experience.

I have been in sitiuations lapping cars where it is obvious that somebody told the lapped driver to "stay on their line"... which they interpret as chopping me off at the apex when I am running bumper to bumper with two other cars that just passed them.... well, guess they always hit the apex on "their line"... too bad I happened to be there.

Same with point-bys... give them early and make sure the passing driver understands... if he has already committed to an inside pass and you point outside.... could be a nasty misunderstanding... personally I'd rather signal with car position.....

One way to handle it is wait until they are actually beside you and simply give them a car width on that side... they'll find their way around.... this does not require you to swerve or change your line drastically... or guess what he is going to do....just modify it to acccommodate the passing car.

if the car is still solidly behind you goin into the turn, just stay on the racing line... he's not going anywhere until the exit. in which case he'll pull around you on the inside.

If a train of cars is passing you let them play follow the leader, and stay wide of them until they are all through.... unless one of them is in your class challenging you for position, and then i would say you have a right to hold line and race him.... if you can.... usually when that happens you're screwed...

Z-man

Yeah, but you can apply skills from one to another. That's what I meant.
-Z.