forklift

That sounds like what I do in the S's, adding throttle through the turns until the car settles, and then breathing, maybe even lifting after the car settles, but then back on through the next one, but not full throttle the whole way.

I will try that on the Oak Tree, that is my worst turn I think.

BrandonH

I had never seen the place prior to the Oct. race so I really studied the track notes and video. Some of the most useful notes I found here: http://www.tarheelbmwcca.org/schools.htm Also Leh Keen's GT3 video which you have was very helpful, I think i must've watched it for 2-3 hours all told. He went on to podium in the Grand Am race that weekend so I guess he's got it down.

I'm at the other end of the spectrum HP-wise with a 911SC G car, and I only spent this one weekend at the track. However I somehow qualified first in class and finished 1st & 3rd in the enduro/sprint running 2:20s so haven't got it completely wrong. (full disclosure: also fell of the track once in each race) My thoughts:
T1/2 is a decreasing radius turn, I kept having to force myself to apex earlier, after finding all kinds of asphalt left at track out; T3, Nascar, can really be taken fast in a 911 get on the throttle early, use all available track at turn in. T4, Left hook, you sacrifice optimal geometry to set up for the lower esses. I tried it different ways and managed to spin it once, but however you get around it, you want to wind up in the center or even slightly L of center at track out to optimized your entry into lower esses. WOT from the first right of the esses, a light soft sprung car can bounce on the curbs left/right a bit, turn in for beg of climbing esses like Leh shows right at the far edge of the unused track that spurs off to the right. I'm upshifting into fifth around the bridge. As far as flat through the climbing esses, well I never did, preferring instead to breath throttle slightly in a rhythm with my turn in points. I dunno, maybe I could've done it WOT; next time. Arriving at the "plateau" at the end of the climbing esses, I was braking, downshifting to fourth, then hard on the throttle right at turn in for south bend. Car was stable as a rock but could be faster, I was overslowing the car (it's blind, and turns L while dropping off, so takes faith). I think a better way is stay in fifth, lift, turn, then mash and hang on. Down into T11, as has been said, downshift to third, apex in a smooth arc, fly into the second half of corner, down to second, turn wheel very decisively. I never got this right and it cost me on the back straight, similar to the 5a/5b complex at Mosport: milliseconds matter in terms of getting on throttle early bc you are aimed at a loooong uphill climb, not that the turbo guys notice... So scrape the oak tree w/the passenger side door handle, work up through the gears trying not to upshift on the hilly parts. Entering the roller coaster, stay left of track at entrance, yes you can brake later than you think bc it is significantly uphill. Just be ready with plenty of decisive rear-end-planting throttle through the first R-hand part. Then establish a rhythm, make sure you are entering hog pen with car all the way to the left. As you enter first part of hogpen, you are wot to plant the rear (the track dips here, watching the grand am cars come through I realized no one looks pretty here), release the car in a smooth arc, then apex the curb and track out to the main straight.
My thoughts anyhow. Arriving for practice 8am on a Friday morning that was so foggy they delayed practice one hour, I was really grateful to have memorized the track map.

Search archives for the notes and links of other rennlisters who typed long helpful messages when I asked the identical question in Sept.

Z-man

Now that's funny!

I have my track notes at home, and I'll try to post them later today.

I don't do the esses at WOT, but then again, I've been told that I drive like a girl!

That said, I believe folks who have a background in autocross have a slight advantage at VIR. The first section of the track and the section following the long back straigtht are both a series of interconnected turns. (Think Madness at Mid-Ohio) VIR is a very busy track.

Looking forward to seeing you all there!
Make sure to say HI at the morning tech line! (Instructors are welcome to roll through as well!)

-Z-man.

RedlineMan

Hey Jeff;

Since we're in different groups, and assuming Red will be out first, you're welcome to come for a ride first session to get a look see at your opponent first hand, before the battle.

Z-man

John: if Jeff declines your offer, I've got dibs on the first ride with Redlineman.

And if you're not too busy in the first Black run group, I could use a few pointers. Back in the summer at Watkins Glen, I was too worried about oil pressure/coolant loss/cracked head to really concentrate on my driving when I took you out...

-Z.

carreracup21

VIR is a great safe track, you will have a lot of fun in your C2. There are some danger spots though that can bite. The little flat esses have a nasty tire wall very close on the right that can occasionally nab the car that gets out of shape there. Take it easy in that section until you have it down. I like to take them in 3rd gear, making sure I turn in early enough to clip the right side curbing on entry and then brush the subsequent curbs as I accelerate out and into 4th.
Also the oak tree section can get dicey if you go in very hot. Again there is a tire wall close by so work up slowly. Entering that section the first right hander can be taken pretty fast, but you can get pushed out wide into the grass and wall if you abuse entry speed as the small ridge can lighten the car. Hit 2nd gear before the final oak tree right hander and brush the inside cubing as you get hard into the gas exiting all the way to the outside curbing.
I've done low 2:14's there in my 92 USA Cup ( D class ) on S04s.

tntporsche

Z-man - What, may I ask, is wrong with driving like a girl????

tntporsche

With all due respect, it is not only the car but the combination of the car and the driver. When you give advice here, some people may actually take it. Hence, my suggestion that they should seek out an instructor. Hey, instructors can even seek out other instructors. This is Drivers Ed and we are all there to learn.

RSRRacer

a 90 C2 cant go flat thru the esses
a 90 C2 cant wait till the 0 marker to brake

unless its a lightweight racecar with tons of downforce

Z-man

Well, I've been trying to find out what that means myself since lots of folks keep telling me this!

I suppose I'll be running in the GREEN run group @ VIR...

That said, I'd like to request some instruction from you at VIR - hopefully you'll have some time to spare to go out in a run with me...

So hopefully, I've got one session reserved with Redlineman, and one with tntporsche. Lookin' good so far...

-Z.

forklift

I reserved a spot for Redline shotgun in April for VIR, so the line starts here! .....in white anyway.

tntporsche

Z-man - I'd love to ride with you at VIR - You don't have to worry about moving back to green but those folks that keep telling you that you drive like at girl - well - that's another story

Rsrracer - Agreed - I would bet that I could find a 914 1.8 with an inexperienced driver that couldn't make it through the esses flat out. I really worry when I see posts that give advice about "flat out" and brake "late" - I remember asking a driver what happened after a serious incident and being told that his "friend" told him to go into the bowl at Pocono flat out in fifth. He didn't make it . . . maybe his friend could do it all day long but he couldn't. I really hate picking up once shiny pieces of someone's steed as they lay scattered across the track.

Every driver is different - My advice to all is that if you want to improve, be wary of advice that is given by someone who has not been in the passenger seat of your car. Take an instructor. When you are a solo driver, ask different instructors to go out with you. They are there to help and you can pick up lots of different pointers from each of them.

j_leder

Hey John
That would be fantastic. I would love to take that 1st run with you. I'll catch up with you after tech.
I'll be looking forward to it. Thanks for the offer..Greatly appreciated.

RedlineMan

Holy Underwear, Batman!

Beer who's moniker is hard to pronounce, Habanas, R-compound tires... just in case a bidding war for "my services" erupts!

Random thoughts -

- One must factor in that "flat" is relative to the car in question, the driver, and how someone gets INTO a turn. If you go in slow, flat is "easy." If you go in fast, and are on the limit of adhesion, flat is highly various, and likely impossible.

- If you feel it is time to stretch the envelope, first make sure that you have exit strategies well ingrained and butt-o-meter well calibrated. Up your concentration 20% to go 10% faster. This also means to be on top of the car 20% more. Don't float in hoping to make it stick. Decisiveness is a large part of upping the ante successfully. Pick a friendly corner (lots of them at VIR) and note which way and where to straighten if things go awry. Know when to bail - to go straight - and when to try and make it work, but only if you have a full tool box of tricks to make a non-working corner manageable (chop throttle, LFB, Toss & Catch, etc).

- Don't go through the Uphill Esses and into South Bend looking in your mirrors. We wouldn't want to have to rename the "lake" in the infield!

- Look for the Central NY Redliners paddocked at the far left of this picture. Food, Beer, Cigars, Bench racing, all in abundance. Proud Charter Members of the NNJR Trailer Trash!

DrJupeman

Fwiw, I broke at zero in my 2001 Boxster S (full pig, 3050 lbs with hardtop). The C2 and Boxster have similar power and weight so I expect terminal speeds are similar (if anything the Boxster may be faster given slightly more advantageous gearing). Therefore I think the C2 could do it, but can the driver?

That said... TNTPorsche speaks the truth. Don't try it because I say I can do it. The driver and car combination dictate everything. I had to work up to braking at 0 (I started at 4, no doubt) and I've been an instructor for years. TNTs advice is also why you often hear the recommendation that you do NOT ride with an instructor when you're a newbie. Too many people try to replicate what they see without understanding all the subtleties the instructor is doing to keep the car heading in the intended direction...

Have fun out there. I'm really sad I will miss this event.