Alpine951

Anyone out there willing to give me a ride in there car on the street so I can see how much jarring my bones will be able to take on the street when I take out the 160 lb front springs from my 86 951 and put in something more suitable for the track. My car is my daily driver but at the track its just too soft to get around the track. I'll buy the beer, lunch, dinner, etc... I am probably going to go the Tbar route in the back.

John

macnewma

Hey if you are in Indy next spring I will have 400 lbs in front and 30mm in rear. I think it will be harsh on the street, but my car will spend most of next year at DEs.

How long is your daily commute and how are the roads? I have a feeling it will be great most of the time, it is just those moments where the concrete is less than optimal.

Max

Alpine951

Daily commute isn't too long, 20 minutes. No job is permanent though. I think it would be Ok a large majority of the time also. I have been think of getting to Indy to see the Grand Prix.

M758

400 is quite stiff. 250 to 300 are probably much better. 250 is a really nice stiff street set-up. Quite sporty a little stiff, but very managable. 400 is probabay bordering on too stiff. Sure you can take it, but do you want to?

250's might be a little light for the track, but a very nice compromise. You can go to 300's for a little stiff, but proabably ok. 350's get really close to 400's.

dgz924s

I drive with 400lb everyday and a bit rough on rough roads but not bad enough to lose any fillings! Very nice to drive still but winter is another issue because of the spherical bushings.

macnewma

Alp, if you make it out here for the GP, you should hook up with the local PCA chapter. We have blocks of seats and a parking area. I know a few of the 944 guys would be around. I think I will be the only one with a similar Koni + 400lbs + 30mm setup, but there might be others.

Also, if dal, whose car is lighter than ours, can hack the 400lb springs, I wouldn't imagine it to be all that bad.

M758, remember your car is a featherweight compared to our cars. 400lbs on yours won't feel the same.

But then again, maybe I will sing a different tune when I install mine.

max

M758

Max,
I only have 350's in my mine and given its weight I would not drive that on the street other than to the track.

On to a full weight car...
That said 400lbs are stiff for the street with 30 mm t-bars. Yes it is driveable, but in a daily driver it is a severe compromise. 250lbs spring work well on the street and stiffen the track feel. Since alpine's car is daily driver I take more cautious approach. Getting pounded for 1000 miles each months just so you can do 100 on the track is a tough compromise. 250's in my mind are an excellent street/track balance with leaning torward street. 400's in my mind are stiff, but no so stiff as to not allow you to drive to the track with them, just don't expect much fun unless you are pushing it hard. Weekend only with lots of track time. Yeah 400's probably will work. As daily driver I think it will get OLD VERY quickly. That is why 300 or 350's might be just right.

Then again may be I am just getting old and like a little more comfort in my daily drive.

Alpine951

I'm sure its all subjective. i unfortunately don't have any basis for what would be acceptable to me. Hopefully I find someone who can give me a ride soon.

P.Po

Having driven a 951 on the streets of downtown Toronto with 250 lbs springs for a year, I can tell you that 400 lbs would be unbearable. This is of course because of street car tracks and forst heaves etc.
I had Koni adjustables on the car as well.

When I bought the car it was nice and tight. After driving it on rough roads for a year, little creaks and groans popped up.

My opinion is that if you are going with 400lbs springs and a spherical bearing setup you are WAY to stiff for any comfort on the street and you will start to notice your car being not as :tight: as before. If you are going 400 lbs springs with factory rubber bushings my first question would be why? and I don't think that the rubber will help much in terms of street driving comfort anyhow.

Just an opinion YMMV,
Patrick

PedalFaster

I agree. I've got 250 lb./in. springs and Koni Yellows on my 951, and the ride isn't appreciably stiffer than my Honda S2000, which has JRZ shocks but stock springs. In both cases, the ride is stiff but not unreasonably so for a daily-driven sports car.

Steve

RedlineMan

Hey John;

I have done street/track setups with 300-350lb front springs on Ledas. Depending on the chassis, they are reasonably acceptable for street use; more so on the 968 than the 930 for instance. Certainly not smooth like stock, but not as brutal as you might expect. I think 400 might be pushing it a bit. I throw a dealer plate on my 400/450 track car occasionally, and it is pretty "engaging."

You should also consider that it is not so much the spring rate as the damping that will cause a rough ride. The trade off is the car pogoing along when you dial the damping down... if you have adjustable shocks. Mostly what is annoying about more stiffly sprung cars is the tendancy of the nose to bob as you ride along.

If I were you, I might go for 250 effective rate all around. Springs are only about $150 the pair, and you can safely upgrade the front without touching the rear in most cases.

Van

Alpine, FWIW, if you're near Woodstock, NY, I'll take you out in a car with 550# springs....

Skip Wolfe

I think 300#'s are the way to go. I ran 300#'s with 29mm bars for awhile and was surprised at how mild they were on the street. I then decided to go with 400's since I don't drive the car on the street much, and they are definitely too harsh for a daily driver, although they are nice on the track. I am also running all spherical bearings which I'm sure doesn't help. Also if you go with the Paragon/Ground Control coil-over conversion the new springs cost <$100 so its easy to play.

macnewma

Actually, here is a suggestion. Find a set of rear torsion bars that will give you a corresponding range of front springs to try.

Here are some guesses. RedlineMan or Skip at Paragon should be able to confirm these numbers (or trash them ).

30mm Rear = 350-400lbs Front
29mm Rear = 275-325 Front
28mm Rear = 200-250 Front

You should also probably get the M030 rear sway bar so that you can make small adjustments when trying these different combos. I might order a set of 350 lb springs to swap in and then dial out a little rear sway bar. My car is also probably about 50/50 street track and as time goes on it will see more track time. I also don't usually commute in mine so it is just fun street driving anyway.

You will find that RedlineMan and Skip at Paragon are your best resources when it comes to 944 suspensions. They have seen so many setups. One is a Leda guy, the other Koni. They have their preferences, but they will give you honest opinions. Talk to both of them. I will probably go with a high-end Leda setup in a year or two. Soon, it will be a Koni/Ground Control kit.

Max

Alpine951

Doe torsion bars thickness cover a wider range of front spring weights? In other words will a 28mm torsion bar match up with the range of 250# to 350# front springs, or what range will a 29mm bar match up to?. If the torsion bar covered a range of front spring weight then I could decided on the rear bars and then only change the front springs if after installing them feel that they are too hard or soft.