SundayDriver

Color,

There is far more to amateur (and professional) racing than winning - even at the highest levels. Do you honestly think that Jordan expects to win F1 races?

There are ~5000 SCCA racers, as I recall. ~4800 of them have no chance at winning the National Championship in their class in any given year. I think that all race with a goal; some want to do better than dead last, some want top half, others top 10, others podium and some reasonably think they can win. In my case, given my level of experience and the depth of talent in DSR this year, my stretch goal was top ten. Sure a win would have been great but it would have required a great deal of bad luck to others. It was not a reasonable goal for me, this year.

In your single statement (if these folks saw it), you have managed to **** off ~4800 of the Highest Character people I have ever seen. You have certainly offended me with your comments. These are people who put it on the line for all to see every time they race. They don't sit behind a keyboard and pretend to be fast or pretend to know things about racing when they have never run a race. They don't go out on the track and make excuses for the videos of their performances. When they (I) screw up, or miss an apex, it is not because we are doing something that no one else understands. The reason is simple - we run out of talent. Often on each and every lap of a race that happens and we admit it.

They don't go out in cars and venues that mask their abilities. They go out in real races in specific classes with track records and other cars to be measured against. Even if they are consistently dead last and 20 seconds off the pace, they do it for all to see. They do this because they love what they do and bacause they are men and women of the Highest Character.

To your point and offer...
It is laughable for you to think that you can analyze what went on in that race with the data. So if I took T1 5mph slower on one lap, WTF does that mean? Was I just slow, was I scared, was I bored, was I stuck behind a slower car, was I off line passing someone or being passed? Or was I sliding because I just got bumped by someone, or perhaps there was a yellow flag and a car in the track. Maybe my tires were going off or there was oil on the track. Did the track temp change or any one of hundreds of other things?

You seem to desperately want acceptance and credibility here. Well, go get yourself in a car where you can measure your performance against others. Personally, I would like to see how your theoretical view of the track world holds up in a Spec Racer Ford. Go rent and race. If you are not willing to go wheel to wheel, then rent one at a DE and see how fast you are compared to lap records. Then see how well your DAS view of driving improves your times.

Here is all the analysis that is needed:
1) At this years Run Offs, I was the tenth best in class.
2) I learned a bunch of things about prep and race tactics.
3) I learned a little bit of stuff about driving from my data, but only because I was in the seat and KNOW what happened on the track that goes with the data.

RedlineMan

If I may, Mr. Driver... Sir.

Tenth best... IN THE NATION

JPhillips-998

Sunday, A HEARTFELT CONGRATULATIONS ON AN AMAZING JOB. I am sorry that what should have been a wonderful thread had to turn to on one person being a laughable idiot.

Really Color, I didn't mean to offend by that above comment...really! But I do have an offer for you....I feel it is my duty as a former bartender to offer you a free psychograhic evaluation...I will be happy to share my report with this esteemed board if any data is actually aquired.

Do you have people that report to you in your line of work? If so, have you analyzed the the employee turnover data that you have aquired?

ColorChange

Mark: If any of my comments here offended you or appeared to minimize the level of your accomlishement then I apologize. This was not intened and if it was taken that way, I am sorry.

Your point on why one corner might be bad compared to another are all valid. This is handled by looking at multiple laps and asking you if anything happened. The DAS can still indentify overall trends and some goods or bads. From my own personal self interest, I wanted to see what a top 10 driver looked like, but if you don't want to share, OK.

Jeff, if you can explain to me the constructive intent of your post, I will answer you. This should probably be in pm, or at least a spearate thread.

trumperZ06

CC, why weren't you...

smart enough to STOP at your 1st paragraph???

E. J. - 993 Alumni

This is the best description of SCCA racers I have ever read - anywhere. I race a lowly SRF when I am able to afford it and enough times to keep my license current. In that spec class in my first year last year, I run at the front end of the middle of the pack. Usually with 40 or so cars in a race. I am quite pleased with this and have no doubt that as my experience and seat time increase, and my wallet increases to allow this, I will get better. Until then, I am comfortable in knowing that I am faster than half the guys in my class. Thats pretty cool when your class is the biggest in the SCCA.

Once again, congrats Mark, you are a class act and a hell of a racer. Far cry from DEs in your 993tt 4 years ago, huh?

JPhillips-998

Color, I will reply, but will not enter into the typical banter. This will be my only post on the subject.

The "constructive intent" of my post was three-fold.

1) to offer congratulations to Mark on a tremendous season and outing in the run-offs and to let him know that the original intent of the thread was to offer congratulations from a dedicated, friendly, knowledgable group that shares his passion.

2) to attempt to point out the audacity of your offer. There are about 4,991 RACERS that would pay Mark for his data. To learn from, not to preach to, him about his driving and

3) to try to bring a different perspective to the way that you deal with people. I can't imagine that you really try to put people off the way that you do in your posts. Electronic communication loses something in the translation but you have to admit that you seem to alienate more people than you endear. By looking at it in a different context, you might see how other people "hear what you say" and how that affects them. I really don't think that you mean to come off as you do with so many people on this board and I am guessing outside of our arena as well. Sometimes a different "context" can wake someone up.

AGAIN MARK, CONGRATULATIONS!

FormulaOne10

Well, while Color may have been frank in what he said, I see nothing incorrect about it. If you find it insulting then "I think" you took it the wrong way. So you ran out of talent...how is that any different than "not driving well enough?" as Color put it. So you're not Michael Schumacher...but it sounds like your level of talent is actually quite good, and the way I read it, Color wanted to see what a "good" drivers data is like. Take it as a complement, not another opportunity to take down Color (but most on this board seem to like that more than getting to the heart of the matter). You could also legitimately say that Barichello is "not driving well enough!"

I know the data experts he was considering taking the data to and these guys are DAMN GOOD. I would love for them to look at my data every weekend...I just couldn't nearly afford it. In fact there was somebody floating around here that took something like 10 sec off his time at Elkhart in a 944 Turbo during a race weekend with these guys. I believe he may have won his class...maybe he will post (can't remember his name).

Just lighten up a bit - some of you are taking Color a little too literally sometimes.

BTW, congrats on the race - I'd like to see the data too!

ColorChange

Jeff:
Thanks. 1. Agreed. 2. Agreed. That is what I was trying to do, offer expert analysis in exchange for viewing his data - value for him, value for me. 3. Agreed again. I do not understand a lot of the difference in intent and perception but it is largely an electronic problem. Once people get used to an extremely direct communication style, I have rare problems communicating with my employees (or friends).
F1-10: Thanks, but you are risking the LC club rath.

Mike in Chi

Formula 110 and CC

I am sure you will have no problem with my being frank.

You are not reading well enough.

You are not comprehending well enough.

You are not thinking well enough.

And CC You are not writing well enough.

I will not go so far as to say "you ran out of talent" in those areas.
By the way, I can legitimately, and professionally, say that.

RedlineMan

Nowhere within Directness is there contained, by default, inelegance.

Jeff Curtis

Congrats Sunday Driver, as a CSR racer, I realize the level of driving that has to occur to achieve such a placement as "Top Ten in the NATION"!!

It's a shame I may never experience that level.

Sitting here, with the image of you pillaging Mid-Ohio with that Stohr of yours just brings a SH__ eating grin to my face...oh to feel those G's with the acceleration and cornering that car can produce...congrats once again, here's to seeing you give it your best next year!

macnewma

Congrats Sunday. SCCA Run-offs are the real deal. Having watched them on TV, the talent level is on par with many professional drivers. I can't wait to see your car on Speed.

For next years, which I assume you will attend, I bet a bunch of us Indy/Cinci/Chicago guys could make the quick trip over there to give you a hand with whatever you might need in your pit. Maybe that can bump you up to a top 5 or podium. Either way, I plan to make the Run-offs next year. The highest levels of club racing is probably more fun to watch than F1 or ALMS.

CC, I can only shake my head. Your comment of ignorance towards the competition is a weak way to question the worthiness of his accomplishments. You obviously have an Internet connection and a little quick research would have been the appropriate thing to do. It would take you 5 minutes to figure out that the Run-offs are the pinnacle of amateur racing. Orrrr...you could have just said..."What are the Run-offs?" Oh it appears you have taken your agenda and tried to crap on Sunday's accomplishments and our attempt to bask in his glory. It is pathetic.

On the other hand, I am civil and I understand that everyone makes mistakes (even if it happens repeatedly). I might swing by Putnam this weekend and check out your setup and DAS. Unfortunately, I am not qualified to say much more than, "That looks cool".

Max

ColorChange

Max: My stating my ignorance is exactly what it is, lack of knowledge and was AGAIN, not intended as a slight in any way! I have already apologized for my poor word choice and any reslulting misinterpretation. I would like to meet you at Putnam.

FormulaOne10

Just to clear some things up...

I know what the runoffs are, I know how competitive it is, I have been to them before as a spectator. I totally respect the level of accomplishment achieved by Mark.

I have an extremely high level of respect for a driver of Marks caliber. He is likely more skilled than most everybody on this board.

I don't see how, in any way, I have "not read well enough" or "not thought well enough here." (I would like some elaboration here rather than an open ended attack). If I offended Mark in any way it was unintended and I apologize. The point about talent was that people at the highest levels of the sport "run out of talent" (like Barichello). But Barichello is still an incredible driver! I really do want to see Mark's data (should he be generous enough to give it out).