smokey

I have a HANS, and don't notice it at all on the track. When driving out of the pits, I leave the belts loose so I can turn my head. I can put it on and take it off in the car easily by leaving everything attached, putting on the HANS with one hand while holding the helmet with the other, and then putting on the helmet. I do only DE, so I have no window net problem, and after catching the HANS once on the roof on exit, have learned to duck a bit. Next year I'll have the net for vintage racing. IMHO, driving on a track without a neck restraint is nuts, especially after my wreck earlier this year.

Mark in Denver

I use a shaped cotter pin. I was just looking for a picture of one on the 'net and found this "locking cotter pin" which is an improvement over what I use. The ones that I use were purchased at Home Depot and don't have the lock.

http://www.pivotpins.com/catalog/bow_tie.shtml

The tiny circular pins that come with the ISAAC are hard for me to deal with and I invariably dropped them. I haven't had any problems in the 34 track days since I started using the cotter pin. BTW, I just use it on one end.

Mark

924RACR

Makes sense, thanks!

A930Rocket

It just seems easier to do than drilling four small holes for the bolt, washer and nut per bracket in your helmet and having to deal with what ever the inside looked/felt like. You just mark where it goes, sand off the gel coat 1/16-1/8 past your mark (we used a little rotary sanding wheel on a dremel tool) mix up the glue and set them in position. Took about an hour for both sides. One tube will do two helmets BTW.

Changing from the circular clips to the hairpin or something else (Mark's idea)would be nice to take them out faster/easier.

richard glickel

My Hans device arrived today, so I may be a little late with this question - someone mentioned that the Issac provided a good amount of neck support. I was wondering whether Hans also provides neck support. I don't think there will be room to wear a neck collar AND use the Hans - or is there??

While I agree that neck protection should be required, (and it stinks that Dale Earnhardt had to die for everyone to appreciate this), I gotta say that considering the amount of material and the relative simplicity of the concept, these things are seriously overpriced. Although I am fortunate enough to be able to afford the device, I do worry about those people who will forego the best protection due to the high price.

Yeah, I know all that stuff about how much do you value your health, etc., etc. And, ours is not an inexpensive "hobby". But, I'm being realistic here. $900 is the cost of 2 good quality (not top of line) helmets, or a used pair of racing seats in very good condition, and various other things - too much to list.

I would say that no one should be permitted on the track without a neck collar, at minimum. No collar, no track time. The various clubs and PCA regions can have loaners available at their event (as some do with helmets).

Stay safe and have fun.

Richard

mitch236

First the price of the HANS (and Isaac) is not too high for the technology and number of units sold. If more people buy them the price should drop.

Second, let's give up the notion that neck collars provide any useful protection. They can't. A neck collar may help relieve stress for neck muscles while on track but if you have an off, the collar is worthless. Absolutely useless. Keep in mind that much neck injury results from neck extension which the collar can't prevent. And if you think it will help at all preventing lateral head motion you are gravely mistaken. Neck collars merely pillows.

For DE, it is not practical to require neck protection as this would preclude almost everyone from participating but in the higher groups and definitely in racing, neck restraints should be mandatory

M758

What is the typical order time for HANS or Isaac?

I am looking to do my next track event in mid-late november?

Glen

1-2 wks hans

JCP911S

Had HANS for several years. Don;t notice it while driving, although it does restrict ability to see out the side window for passing (or being passed in my case)... makes mirrors more important.

One issue is that it raises the level of the shoulder harnesses... I had to have an auxilliary bar welded to my cage to get them back to level. If the harnesses are below the shoulders, I find the HANS focused all the load on my collarbone... probably not optimal in a crash.

Putting it on requires a bit of fiddling to develop a technique. I keep mine connectied to my helmet, so I put the HANS on and pull my helmet on with the straps.... once you practice, it isn't bad.

I find it difficult to use in DE as I am jumping from car to car and the belts are frequently incompatible... I always end up leaving it on the pit wall or some stupid thing.

I just got a Sparco Circuit seat with the head restraints, but cannot get in and out with my helmet on... but this is the seat, not the HANS... I need to re-position the mounts.

The HANS does provide some degree of head support, although I never have a problem with neck discomfort.... (maybe I should corner a bit harder)

Bottom line, I would not race without some neck protection, and probably should not do DE either, but as I said above it is difficut to use when instructing.

fatbillybob

JCP911 wrote:"I just got a Sparco Circuit seat with the head restraints, but cannot get in and out with my helmet on... but this is the seat, not the HANS... I need to re-position the mounts.""

Can you explain this more? The circuit looks like a great seat. The circuit head loop can not be moved right? I like the concept of full containment. However, last year, GBaker and I talked about the great idea of full containment seats. He brought up the concept of me thinking checkers but crashing is more like chess. The full containment works great in full lateral/ full front rear impact. But when the crash is offset you can come forward in the seat only to have the back of your head hit the point of the head hoop with resltant stabbing or deflection of your head/body out of the seat! He says while the Isaac was designed for frontal head movement control the device accidentally provides much lateral impact safety at any offset angle. Someone on this list (a 944 guy in a rear corner crash into a wall?) posted about their isaac crash and how he bent the dampner rods in a offset lateral impact and the Isaac saved his neck. Anyway, GBakers point was that since the Isaac offers the unintended lateral support a full containment seat was not needed. Furthur, he believes as some other rennlister posted that the most important thing to have was a properly mounted sidenet in addition to your windownets.

YMMV

JackOlsen

I'm an Isaac user.

mitch236

This is not the case at all. The HANS or Isaac does not offer enough lateral impact control. The seat gives "body retention" and therefore should hold the head and torso in the seat. You need both the seat and the neck restraint system.

As for the right side net, this is a very good idea as well. The possibility of coming forward and right lateral resulting in your head being caught out of the head retention part of the seat is a real possibility.

As for instructing, I always hope my student has harnesses.

fatbillybob

mitch236 wrote:"This is not the case at all. The HANS or Isaac does not offer enough lateral impact control. The seat gives "body retention" and therefore should hold the head and torso in the seat. You need both the seat and the neck restraint system."

GBaker of Isaac is on rennlist. He can tell you about the lateral support Isaac provides. I'm just an Isaac user. The HANS to my knowledge provides no lateral support. Also, lateral impact is not the dangerous impact although a lateral one can be fatal don't get me wrong.. The BSF comes from whipping forward as I understand it. There are two primary classess of harness belting systems. Some are reported to stretch between 10 inches and some up to 15" in an impact. Stroth for example uses the low stretch ones. Simpsons are the high stretch ones. The "new" simpson company with the lightening bolt logo I forget the name now uses the low stretch material. Anyway, belts stretch and alter the retention in seats. Crashes are very violent. See the impact videos of the racetech seat guys also posted on Rennlist some months back. Seat desing is very complex. We all know what we want them to do and every manufacturer thinks they are better. I don't think full containment seats are hype. I'll buy one one day when I can sit in all of them for a try with all my junk on. You just can't mail order one or go in your street cloths and hope it fits. Even too many pads in a seat will alter its safety charactor.

924RACR

I'm the one who backed my car into a wall, wearing an ISAAC, and did tweak not the damper rods but the ends that screw on - the ball-cup arrangement. Easily repaired. I am also the one who posted about the right side net, which is both more effective and cheaper than a fancy seat for the reasons described above. BSR Racing sells the net for about $60-80 as I recall.

Per crash tests at Wayne State (up here in good Ole MI!) the seats are nice but what you really need in an oblique impact (ever seen a straight hit? I have, but rare) is a H+N device and a right side net. The HANS only has about a 35-deg angle (cenetered around straight-ahead) where it makes a serious contribution to your safety; that said, it does not detract at larger angles of impact. It is believed that the ISAAC has a wider range of effectiveness, but I have not seen data for or against. I bought in the absence of the data as I preferred the design (as a Mech Engr.).

Adam Richman

I left turn 1 at Road Atlanta in the rain around 80 mph near track out. I hit driver side flush (CW said front end preceeded the rear almost instantaneously). The underside of my car was seen from mid-way down pit lane as the passenger side of the car was in the air upon impact. There was not one remaining supsension part on the left side of the car in one piece (and it did manage to destroy the right side hubs and broke out the rear ends of the transmission and engine), the rear end of the car buckeled under by 8" and both front and rear crossmembers were buckeled by a few inches. There were two places behind me, in front of the rear shock tower where you could put part of your hand into the car. We saved 29 parts off the car in total (at my last count).

I left the track w/ an elevated heartrate (like 130ish), a strained right middle finger, deep tissue bruise on my left arm, surface (black and blue) bruise from the sub belts on my right inner thigh. I never experienced one headache or neck pain. I waited three days to be sure none would surface and then called Gregg Baker to thank him profusely for the Isaac Device and what huge role (and seat and harnesses and drivers net played a role too) I have to assume it played (as did a few others at the track w/ me who assured me, I'd feel that tomorrow in my neck yet never did). At that point, and discussions w/ Gregg, I decided to go inboard w/ a net as well - he has inspected the Isaac device and there are/were no visible signs of damage.

Thank you Isaac Direct!