CC Dedicated Track Car ?
08-30-2004, 03:50 PM
#46
Stuttgart... amen. No DAS system quite as good as some guy dusting your butt in a virtually identical car. Following a really top driver, you will learn real quick where you are leaving time on the table. Racing forces you to drive three clicks beyond your comfort level, and dig hard for those tenths of seconds
I thought I was a really hot s**t instructor. Then I started racing and the only thing I did quickly was get humble. I really improved my driving dramatically as a result of the pressure of competition.... although I'm still pretty much a second tier driver.
People have different goals, and you can have a great time and get really good doing DE, but for me personally, racing was always the deal. My only regret was not starting sooner.
I thought I was a really hot s**t instructor. Then I started racing and the only thing I did quickly was get humble. I really improved my driving dramatically as a result of the pressure of competition.... although I'm still pretty much a second tier driver.
People have different goals, and you can have a great time and get really good doing DE, but for me personally, racing was always the deal. My only regret was not starting sooner.
08-30-2004, 04:01 PM
#47
Burning Brakes
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Originally Posted by Skip Wolfe
....
Another one that might catch me some flack is a C5 Z06. A good friend runs runs one of these and I have had the opportunity to turn some laps with it. Brutally fast and handles very predictably. Nice weight distribution, double wishbone suspensions gives it the balance of a 944, and combine that with wide tires and 405+ hp and you have a hell of a car. You can pick up a T1 prepped Z06 and have a lot of car for the money.
Another one that might catch me some flack is a C5 Z06. A good friend runs runs one of these and I have had the opportunity to turn some laps with it. Brutally fast and handles very predictably. Nice weight distribution, double wishbone suspensions gives it the balance of a 944, and combine that with wide tires and 405+ hp and you have a hell of a car. You can pick up a T1 prepped Z06 and have a lot of car for the money.
N O... don't even mention the Z06 to CC. I have quit telling people I'm an Engineer!
Now I may have to trade my " RIDE" too!
Get what-ever High Horse-power vechicle you want CC!
It will be like using a Big Bertha Driver.... the HP will just take you futher into the Woods!!!
08-30-2004, 07:18 PM
#49
Still plays with cars.
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CC An Elise would make a very nice toy to enjoy track days and since it puts a premium on handling and transient response INSTEAD of brute power it would be a good learning tool as well.
08-30-2004, 08:05 PM
#51
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Originally Posted by ColorChange
Part of my thought was to run two different types of cars, my heavy powerful tt and something light (with still some power
). What if I look at an Elise?
). What if I look at an Elise?
08-30-2004, 09:41 PM
#53
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Originally Posted by ColorChange
OK Guys, I am kicking around a new option. There is a tracking country club opening near my home, Autobahn Country Club.
http://www.autobahncountryclub.net/
I am considering becoming a member and buying a dedicated track car. I am looking at the turbo Diasio 962R. 350hp, 1,100 lbs.
http://www.diasio.com/
My plan is, I get huge rack time, don't take away from family time, and don't need to trailer (I would leave the car there). I would still attend an event or two (for the camaraderie), but probably with my tt.
Please give me your thoughts on the plan, car, clubs, safety, etc.; cost is not a big factor.
http://www.autobahncountryclub.net/
I am considering becoming a member and buying a dedicated track car. I am looking at the turbo Diasio 962R. 350hp, 1,100 lbs.
http://www.diasio.com/
My plan is, I get huge rack time, don't take away from family time, and don't need to trailer (I would leave the car there). I would still attend an event or two (for the camaraderie), but probably with my tt.
Please give me your thoughts on the plan, car, clubs, safety, etc.; cost is not a big factor.
If you're serious about learning how to drive, buy a used miata and have at it. Replace the pads, tires, change the oil and head for the track. After about 50 hours of seat time (with instruction), and marked improvement, step back into your Porsche TT. After another 50 hours (with instruction) consult with your instructor(s) about moving up.
Little cars with slicks, wings and aero are fun but not suitable for the un-initiated.
I would not suggest a stohr or mally racer simply because their performance envelopes are much sharper than the Radicals - both of the aforementioned chassis are very setup sensitive and are engineered for a focused racer - not a DE participant. (They're also single seaters, only.) The Radical shines in ease of use (comparatively) but it still requires time to setup, sort and maintain. I would suggest you get in touch with your local Radical dealer and rent the car (once or twice) and sort out the maintenance and crew costs (as I read you wish to simply arrive & drive, no?)
The above is my recommendation; with the caveat that you're actually interested in learning. If you're simply interested in posturing, or buying a car that'll make you 'look fast,' then disregard what I've proposed
Last edited by Hubert; 08-30-2004 at 10:53 PM.
08-30-2004, 11:37 PM
#56
CC,
I'm about one year ahead of you on the slippery slope. My pathway was DE/trackdays in a turbo to Daly school to renting Spec Racer Ford for a club race to full on racing addiction in a Formula Mazda (which I'm still mid pack slow in.) I don't doubt that I might be more advanced in my driving if I got something slower than the formula mazda, but I don't think I'd be having near as much fun.
Your idea to get a purpose built race car is a sound one. A full cage and harness is a very reassuring thing. Assuming the track you're getting a membership is a relatively tight circuit, a wings n things car will be faster that any production based car within 10 times the price.
If you want a passenger seat and body work over the wheels, your options are pretty limited. The Radical and new Stohr track day car are options, but I'd be a bit wary. The motorcycle engine based cars aren't noted for terrific reliability. When motorcyle motors fail, they tend to fail catastrophically and shoot rods and parts out the bottom of the crankcase. The problem is that the oil that gets released when this occurs can start on fire. (with some frequency in the stohrs of late).
My suggestion would be to see what sport racer or open wheel dealer sets up shop at the local auto country club. If you want to arrive and drive, driving what the local race car dealer sells and supports is the path of least resistance. You won't have to budget for spare parts that you may or may not use because the dealer will (hopefully) have them if you need them.
Since everone else seems to be putting in a plug for their class of car, I'll give you my personal bias. I bought a formula mazda (old type, not the new pro car) and haven't regretted it. The car makes a 996tt feel like a pig on rollerskates. It doesn't have the phenomenal straight line accelleration of the tt, but 1.8 g's of cornering grip more than makes up for it. Driving the turbo on the track after the FM, it feels sloppy and like it reacts to every input in slow motion. In the formula car, every input produces an immediate response. The Fomula Mazda has a reliable rotary powerplant, a durable non syncro gearbox, and brakes that never fade. I've had no DNF's in 9 races. They are cheap to buy at ~20-25K depending on the data system on the car. Plan on buying tires. I could pay for a pretty good crack habit with my tire bill. There is a sports racer conversion kit for the car if you wanted to run with track day clubs which require enclosed wheels. The kit is ~$7.5k. Currently, I think the first generation formula mazda is the undisputed bang for the buck champion club racer.
P.S. You should really bite the bullet and go to the Daly School already. It'll cost less than one of your new tt brake calipers and it will make you a hell of lot faster. I wouldn't wait for them to get the ultimate data system. Trust me, they'll find enough for you to work on with what they've got.
Addendum:
DJ suggested a formula ford which is also a good open wheel option. One plus of the FM over most formula fords is chassis durability. The formula fords are a little less stoutly built and tend to be more prone to bend there suspensions if you take them off roading. The FM was a school car design and is built stoutly enough not to bend or break if you take a trip through the weeds.
I'm about one year ahead of you on the slippery slope. My pathway was DE/trackdays in a turbo to Daly school to renting Spec Racer Ford for a club race to full on racing addiction in a Formula Mazda (which I'm still mid pack slow in.) I don't doubt that I might be more advanced in my driving if I got something slower than the formula mazda, but I don't think I'd be having near as much fun.
Your idea to get a purpose built race car is a sound one. A full cage and harness is a very reassuring thing. Assuming the track you're getting a membership is a relatively tight circuit, a wings n things car will be faster that any production based car within 10 times the price.
If you want a passenger seat and body work over the wheels, your options are pretty limited. The Radical and new Stohr track day car are options, but I'd be a bit wary. The motorcycle engine based cars aren't noted for terrific reliability. When motorcyle motors fail, they tend to fail catastrophically and shoot rods and parts out the bottom of the crankcase. The problem is that the oil that gets released when this occurs can start on fire. (with some frequency in the stohrs of late).
My suggestion would be to see what sport racer or open wheel dealer sets up shop at the local auto country club. If you want to arrive and drive, driving what the local race car dealer sells and supports is the path of least resistance. You won't have to budget for spare parts that you may or may not use because the dealer will (hopefully) have them if you need them.
Since everone else seems to be putting in a plug for their class of car, I'll give you my personal bias. I bought a formula mazda (old type, not the new pro car) and haven't regretted it. The car makes a 996tt feel like a pig on rollerskates. It doesn't have the phenomenal straight line accelleration of the tt, but 1.8 g's of cornering grip more than makes up for it. Driving the turbo on the track after the FM, it feels sloppy and like it reacts to every input in slow motion. In the formula car, every input produces an immediate response. The Fomula Mazda has a reliable rotary powerplant, a durable non syncro gearbox, and brakes that never fade. I've had no DNF's in 9 races. They are cheap to buy at ~20-25K depending on the data system on the car. Plan on buying tires. I could pay for a pretty good crack habit with my tire bill. There is a sports racer conversion kit for the car if you wanted to run with track day clubs which require enclosed wheels. The kit is ~$7.5k. Currently, I think the first generation formula mazda is the undisputed bang for the buck champion club racer.
P.S. You should really bite the bullet and go to the Daly School already. It'll cost less than one of your new tt brake calipers and it will make you a hell of lot faster. I wouldn't wait for them to get the ultimate data system. Trust me, they'll find enough for you to work on with what they've got.
Addendum:
DJ suggested a formula ford which is also a good open wheel option. One plus of the FM over most formula fords is chassis durability. The formula fords are a little less stoutly built and tend to be more prone to bend there suspensions if you take them off roading. The FM was a school car design and is built stoutly enough not to bend or break if you take a trip through the weeds.
Last edited by prg; 08-30-2004 at 11:53 PM.
08-31-2004, 09:49 AM
#57
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Why not forget about buying a track car for now and sign up for a bunch of Skip Barber (or similar) schools. This way you could learn to race while telling your "power that be" that you are learning to drive.
08-31-2004, 11:51 AM
#60
Nordschleife Master
CC I have a high HP 911 turbo that I've driven for a few years AND I came from motorcycle racing. Recently I had an opportunity to drive a 92 euro cup car and without pushing the car was faster than in the turbo car. I also felt that there was a significant upside potential for learning for me in the car. It was 500lbs lighter than my car (about 800lbs lighter than yours) and can be had for $60k. A well driven 964 cup car is faster than a well driven GT3 street car (see PCA Race results).