frayed

Hey fellas, I'm heading to TWS for my virgin run in my new to me C4S.

I run in the advanced groups, but this has been in my M3 (2.02's and 2.03's counter clockwise). From what I can tell on the street, this car is most happy under power, that is, is the most stable on the loud pedal, which would dictate a slow in fast out approach. But, I think there's a bit of power-on understeer that I'll have to drive around. My E36 M3 was pretty stable even when abusing trail braking and even mild mid corner lifts, which I know I won't be able to get away with in the Pcar.

I'm running on PSCs.

In stock form w/o a lot of front camber, have folks had to do a lot of left foot braking to get the car to hook up?

Any rear engine-specific pointers?

jakermc

I'm more advanced novice than advanced, but you actually summed up a rear engine car pretty well. I have tracked a 968, a Boxster S, and (most often) a 911 and the handling difference is just as you described - happiest under power and slow-in/fast-out driving. I am now playing with left foot braking and have found it to be very effective on some turns. For example, at MSR there is a turn that I can take without braking before turn-in driving the 968 or the Boxster S, but the 911 requires a tap of the brakes to settle the car before turn-in. A left foot brake here allows me to shift the weight forward without letting up on the gas. This keeps my rpms up and lets me accelerate through the apex with more time in the power band and with a much more settled car. My front-engined driving instructor friend spun my car on this turn trying to go through with less than throttle and no braking. Works in his Viper, not in my 911.

All that said, I think your 996 based C4S will handle very differently then a 993 or earlier car. I have only had limited time in a 996, but there is much less of a tendency to oversteer. Also the 4 wheel drive will change things a lot, but don't ask me how as I don't have the seat time here.

frayed

Thanks.

mpaton

Just verify for yourself that your ethrottle will cut the engine power if you apply the brake more than a tiny amount while the accelerator is pressed. This may nullify any good effects that you would otherwise have got from LFB on a 996 with electronic throttle. It's why I don't do it. I've met more than a few people who didn't realize that the throttle could be cut entirely when they just want a little weight transfer.

Michael Paton

Robert Henriksen

Jeff, I didn't see where you said 993 or 996 - they're definitely going to be different beasts. I've driven both at TWS; are you coming to the PCA DE, or is there another event before then you're heading to?

Your 4WD won't be as bad about pushing when accelerating out of turns as my bone-stock 993 2WD was; it would push like a pig under throttle past the apex! I had to apex REALLY late, or putt around the turn until I got pointed really straight before leaning on the throttle. Once the alignment was properly set, it changed a LOT for the better. The 4WD will offset some of that, definitely. The 993 C4s definitely showed its good side negotiating the carousel & Larry/Moe/Curly.

What you definitely don't want to do, starting out, is a lot of trail braking. You definitely will need to, but give yourself time to adapt from the M3 to the 911 dynamic. When you can go storming down into T1 with a 2WD 911, four wheel drifting out to the turn-in for T2, feathering the brake pedal while drifting, you'll know you've arrived!

frayed

Michael, I thought that with PSM off, that brushing the brakes activated only the braking portion of PSM, but still let you run free with the throttle? On the other hand, it sounds like PSM is entirely activated (temporarily) when on the brakes.

Robert, it's a 996 C4S. I'm heading up tomorrow for the TWS Motorsports Club weekend. I'll have to try the PCA events again; I attended one in my M3, but found it too congested, too many cars, too little track time. Could have just been the particular weekend though. Well run though.

My tastes really run to a car that will carve, and I have found that a little looseness can be quite a bit of fun. Coming from a heavily massaged E36 M3, I'm betting the stock C4S won't carve into, say, T6 like I'm used to. OTOH, I *really* like how you can tighten the line up with a slight throttle breath in the 996. In the M3, it's pretty benign and immune to anything but massive lifts, like going throught the carousel. . . I have a tendency to get greedy at entry, and have to lift to rotate the car. Hilariously fun, although I have cooked a few sets of kumhos doing that.

mpaton

I don't have great access right now, do I'll just point you at an earlier posting I made in https://rennlist.com/forums/showthre...2&page=2&pp=15

Michael

DJF1

How about doing it sideways?

Jeff I guess the biggest difference you will notice is the weight transfer dynamics. You will get brand new signals from the car that will most likely surprise you... Like Robert said with the C4 you should be ok, still the classic dogma... NEVER LIFT!! Robert does a nifty little left foot braking to tighten up the line, I tried it on the slow stuff and it works great . It could be especially handy on the Carouzel and maybe at the Larry ,Curly and Mo...
Oh and my car still understeers like a pig Robert