Z-man

Hehe....posted edited to reflect your suggestion.

-Z.

Geo

Actually, I didn't think the edit was necessary. I saw dash and though of the DA dash.

mamoroso

I have been reading with interest all the posts on the ColorChange various threads and I have an observation. I spoke as a newbie... having bought my 911 in February and having partecipated to 3 DEs only.

I think most newbies approach DE as racing (or qualifing for a race that actually doesn't take place). And this is why you guys (people with experience) get upset.

My first priority before my 1st DE was to be as fast as possible. Smoothness, consistency and safety didn't even come to mind.
Yes I was willing to listen to everything my instructor was telling me ( this is really a no brainer... he's got probably thousand of track hours in a 911... I wanted to pick his brain as much as possible)... but after a while I was getting frustrated because his inputs were becoming fewer and fewer.

I felt I was not improving and I was not going any faster.... How wrong I was!

My instructor made me focus on smoothness first. Without being too arrogant we got that one sorted pretty soon (I have some track experience with other cars).
Then Consitency. There was the key. I was doing 3 turns perfectly (for a newbie) and then would miss the apex (by little... but you know when u r not spot on) in the next....
As I got more and more consistent I noticed that as if by magic I was getting faster... I was now catching up some of the guys in front of me.

I must say that if I had had the opportunity I would have loved to hook up to my car a DAS that could tell me how "well" I was doing.... Com'on they do it in F1... it's the coolest thing... it makes you feel like you are a real racing driver.

I think CC will see the light... just give him a break for time being...

Geo

No. You see, this is exactly what instructors are for. Your post points that out very clearly.

Sanjeevan

I don't know any of you guy's, and i only have one DE under my belt. But, I have an interesting observation. The little bit I read on this thread (c'mon it's way too long to read the whole darn thing), i had seen experience(pro drivers) vs DAS(mathematics) coming into play, and a lot of us have seen engineers trying to reduce a lot of complex problems into mathematical principles (all 3 of my brothers are engineers) and sometimes they don't work. But, I want to give a clear example where pro's were wrong, and are still wrong, and refuse to believe in simple mathematical analysis.
It is in the game of CRAPS, yep, I started semi-frequenting Vegas recently, and wanted to learn craps. The game can most definitely be explained by probability theory alone, and don't even need the more complex game theory. There are several books out there that is written by "PRO'S" that are totally wrong and stupid, and i am a beginner in the game of craps, and I can guarantee you that i know the game of craps more than most "pro's" out there. The purpose for this example is to vent my frustartion over the so called "pro's" in craps and to give an example of where pro's can be wrong, and continue to be wrong.
When it comes to racing, my notions are entirely different, I think experience has a lot more than data aquisition, but, hey I could be totally wrong as I don't know much about it yet. But, I do know a whole lot about my game of CRAPS

Anir

Interesting analogy, since there is a lot of CRAP in this thread.

Geo

Actually, I think you've hit on something here.

Colorchange's driving is a bit like shooting craps.

chris walrod

Danny, thanks for the comments, I am truly flattered I wish I could have showed you the big HP car stuff....

Are you back home now?

Robert Henriksen

I know, I miss the turbo BIG horsepower days

DJF1

Yes, I got in on Wednesday morning... Chris, I was happy and utterly impressed witnessing the high tech carbon fiber parts that the Atlantics use. While I'm sure that Champ car stuff would be awesome, for me it was more than enough to witness first hand "your" world. I'm also very appreciative for the great hospitality I received from you and again a big thanks for providing a nice and cool place for me to hang out while Vancouver was frying under the intense heat that weekend
The only outstanding question I have is when we can hitch hike that awesome rig of yours to load the 993's on and go racing? After been in that rig my "how to go racing" perspective has changed for ever! Is this what half a mil will get you?

WildWillard

After having read the majority of the words written here, and after watching the Olympics in Athens last night, I came to an epiphany.

ColorChange - Racing is a timed event, not a judged one. The goal is to go around a track the fasted as measured by time. There are no style points (like there are in gymnastics or ski jumping).

If you are looking to improve, I'd suggest that you rent a track and beat the hell out of your car(s) on your own, by yourself. This way you can get all the time to get all the g-sum data you want.

If you come to a PCA DE event, you should play by their rules, ie have an instructor. That is the way that they are handled - they have liability insurance which they pay for, so they set the rules. So, until there is a general comfort with your driving skill, it is their perogative to have an instructor watch over you.

Lastly, someone made a comment about the ease of driving different cars - from my experience P-cars in general are easy to drive near their limits, and from what I've read, the 996TT is almost too easy to drive fast and can give a false sense of security. The moral of this is that nothing can substitue for experience behind the wheel.

Doug

mitch236

I don't get it. Why are people questioning CC's right to be on the track, solo, in a PCA event? I am an instructor and have to say that we take signing off drivers very seriously. So unless CC is dangerous to himself or others, please lay off the cheap shots. Remember we were all novices once.

Tom 77

This is a long thread, You missed the first 5 or 10 pages. At any rate I cant believe its still going.This has become an abuse thread. (Not that I don't think CC doesn't like it). I think if we are as concerned as we say we are, we should just put an end to this and let the cards fall as they may. The more we comment, the less likely he will be to listen and that will acomplish nothing. I have been a member a long time but rarely post, I would rather read and learn. This has been a learning experience, to say the least.
Somewhat sad, I might add.

Lothar

Mitch,

I agree, having participated in quite a number of PCA DE's and havin graduated to solo run group.

I do, however, have a question. Since CC has participated in only a few days of high performance driving, was he signed off for some portion of an event or is he cleared to run in future events as a solo driver? If he is signed off for a few sessions, that shouldn't come as any surprise as long as he has demonstrated that he drives under control and is not a risk to others. To be assigned to a solo run group, given his limited experience, would be a disservice to him and others around him. Some monotoring should be required.

That said, given his ambivilent attitude toward instruction, I would hope that his instructor didn't sign him off out of frustration. I believe that would be the wrong way to handle a student that is dismissive of the instructors direction. I am speaking in general terms and not specifically about CC, but there has been a lot of discussion in this thread about the value of DE instruction vs. the go it alone with DAS. I know that circumstances arise where instructors sign off safe drivers who are just not interested in learning from them.

Many events require a student that is signed off on Saturday to have an instructor in the car for at least the first session of the next day. That is the type of monitoring to which I refer.

RJay

Sorry...a little late to this thread, but I couldn't let this one go. Any AXer who's going cone-to-cone-as-fast-as-can-be is not a very good autocrosser. I wouldn't expect them to drive any better at the track. Hopefully when they went back to do an AX they picked up on what you were showing them.

The key to autocrossing well (like track) is staying ahead of the car. The first thing I try to teach my students at AX is to look as far ahead as they can. A lot of people I meet seem to have decent car control skills. What they don't have, after umpteen years of street driving is the ability to look past the braking point, past the apex to the track out point. In AX, what they learn (sometimes quickly, sometimes only after a few years) is the way to go fast is to slow things down and the best way to do that is to move your focus outward to the critical gates and keep the near stuff in your peripheral vision. If they do that well they'll go fast, win a few trophies and it serves them very well when they finally arrive at the track. Sorry for the somewhat rabid AX defense...but I'm headed to the NCR DE at NHIS on Monday and I'm warming up for my bi-annual AXers make better DErs debate with Dunkle (who's too chicken to show up at any AXs and have his butt tanned )