Open VS Enclosed trailer and safety on the road
06-24-2004, 10:48 PM
#16
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My SRF is a measly 12.5' long, but I doubt if/when I buy an enclosed trailer I'll get anything as small as a 20'. When I used a friend's 18' enclosed trailer it was... tight. With a 993, and the LARGER tires to deal with, a countertop across the front w. a toolchest, cooler, jack, jackstands, bleeder, supplies, yada yada yada, you'd be running out of room before you pulled out of the parking lot.
The guy I bought my car from was using, I believe, a 22' V-nose trailer with a large Toyota truck (gas). He said he thought the V-nose helped his small truck manage the relatively large trailer.
Another thing to think about (don't know how much you can budget for this), is the price of gas these days, and the now significantly lower price of diesel. And compare towing & around-town, daily-driver mileage of a diesel truck versus a gasser w. any guts.
The guy I bought my car from was using, I believe, a 22' V-nose trailer with a large Toyota truck (gas). He said he thought the V-nose helped his small truck manage the relatively large trailer.
Another thing to think about (don't know how much you can budget for this), is the price of gas these days, and the now significantly lower price of diesel. And compare towing & around-town, daily-driver mileage of a diesel truck versus a gasser w. any guts.
06-24-2004, 11:54 PM
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Originally posted by Robert Henriksen
My SRF is a measly 12.5' long, but I doubt if/when I buy an enclosed trailer I'll get anything as small as a 20'. When I used a friend's 18' enclosed trailer it was... tight. With a 993, and the LARGER tires to deal with, a countertop across the front w. a toolchest, cooler, jack, jackstands, bleeder, supplies, yada yada yada, you'd be running out of room before you pulled out of the parking lot.
The guy I bought my car from was using, I believe, a 22' V-nose trailer with a large Toyota truck (gas). He said he thought the V-nose helped his small truck manage the relatively large trailer.
Another thing to think about (don't know how much you can budget for this), is the price of gas these days, and the now significantly lower price of diesel. And compare towing & around-town, daily-driver mileage of a diesel truck versus a gasser w. any guts.
My SRF is a measly 12.5' long, but I doubt if/when I buy an enclosed trailer I'll get anything as small as a 20'. When I used a friend's 18' enclosed trailer it was... tight. With a 993, and the LARGER tires to deal with, a countertop across the front w. a toolchest, cooler, jack, jackstands, bleeder, supplies, yada yada yada, you'd be running out of room before you pulled out of the parking lot.
The guy I bought my car from was using, I believe, a 22' V-nose trailer with a large Toyota truck (gas). He said he thought the V-nose helped his small truck manage the relatively large trailer.
Another thing to think about (don't know how much you can budget for this), is the price of gas these days, and the now significantly lower price of diesel. And compare towing & around-town, daily-driver mileage of a diesel truck versus a gasser w. any guts.
I have narrowed my search to one truck in particular after reading many other boards. The Nissan Titan which is a full size beast 12mpg when towing heavy from reports I read and 9500LBS max towing capacity which should cover my needs. If this truck is not substancially smaller for daily traffic than an F250 I may splurge...Unfortunately buying up there is not a cheap as buying back in TX or getting a killer deal from you know who
.I saw on another post someone who bought a 20F+ 5F of V nose. I was thinking of something like that , like a V nose for the tools, tires etc and the 20F box for the car alone. I remember the 28F (?) we towed was more than enough for everything and then some...
Thanks Don for comfirming I'm not as paranoid as I think sometimes I'm
Txs again to all for your replies.
06-25-2004, 01:11 AM
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The mpg on our Putnam trip was an aberration, you definitely shouldn't use it as that ruler for diesel. www.fordtrucks.com will give you an earful (eyeful?) on the early 6.0L diesels in the 2003 Ford superduties. The 2002 & older 7.3L diesels, while louder, got damn near the same mileage whether they were towing or not. And the later 03/04 6 liter diesels are much better.
Ford had a lot of teething problems w. that new motor. Dave thought he was buying a late '03 truck, when in fact it had been sitting at the dealer's lot since the beginning of the model year.
Another thing - don't plan on trying to tow close to 100% of the official manufacturer's claimed towing capacity of the truck. Yes, it may work, but it's going to be a lot more tiring to drive, more wear & tear, longer braking distances, etc. My Ranger is rated at 4,000 pounds, but I wouldn't want to try & tow any more than the ~2,500 pounds I'm doing now.
I did a LOT of research on all thing when I was trying to talk myself into a bigger truck. One of the really surprising things was to compare overall length & width of the F150 to the super duties: almost zero difference. Lots more guts in the F250 w/o a big change in the parking spaces you can squeeze into. Wheelbase becomes the big issue; longer wheelbase makes for a more stable tow, but that's when the parking lots become a hassle.
Ford had a lot of teething problems w. that new motor. Dave thought he was buying a late '03 truck, when in fact it had been sitting at the dealer's lot since the beginning of the model year.
Another thing - don't plan on trying to tow close to 100% of the official manufacturer's claimed towing capacity of the truck. Yes, it may work, but it's going to be a lot more tiring to drive, more wear & tear, longer braking distances, etc. My Ranger is rated at 4,000 pounds, but I wouldn't want to try & tow any more than the ~2,500 pounds I'm doing now.
I did a LOT of research on all thing when I was trying to talk myself into a bigger truck
. One of the really surprising things was to compare overall length & width of the F150 to the super duties: almost zero difference. Lots more guts in the F250 w/o a big change in the parking spaces you can squeeze into. Wheelbase becomes the big issue; longer wheelbase makes for a more stable tow, but that's when the parking lots become a hassle.
06-25-2004, 01:50 AM
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My 2 cents, forget all this talk about Fords and Gas engines. Buy a dodge with a cummins in it. and you will not be disapointed.
I have a 2001 4x4 dodge with the diesel and get 20mpg empty on the highway, 17mpg around town and 14.5 mpg towing my heavy 20' enclosed trailer with the Porsche, tools and tires in it. It does an awesome job.
When considering a trailer really think hard about getting an ALuminum enclosed if at all possible and a V nose if available. Both will help with fuel consumption.
Pete
I have a 2001 4x4 dodge with the diesel and get 20mpg empty on the highway, 17mpg around town and 14.5 mpg towing my heavy 20' enclosed trailer with the Porsche, tools and tires in it. It does an awesome job.
When considering a trailer really think hard about getting an ALuminum enclosed if at all possible and a V nose if available. Both will help with fuel consumption.
Pete
06-25-2004, 09:03 AM
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A few comments about towing...
There are no substitues (where have I heard that phrase before?) for torque and wheelbase when it comes to towing. Add to that a good hitch and brake controller.
I tow w/ a 7.3 PSD Excursion. With the long wheelbase, good hitch and that motor, I can drive comfortably at almost any speed. It is really no more work to cruise at 75mph than it is 55. On big hills, I can hold 55 or better. My trailer is usually around 8,000 lbs. No real upsets when passing or being passed by semi's nor do crosswinds upset that rig.
If you debating trailer, go with enclosed. I think you will be sorry if you don't. There is more security, ease of use and convenience than you can imagine. I would not go smaller than a 24'. BTW - The V nose that I have seen, measure the box from the tip of the V so a 24' V-nose is about 21-22 ft of full box.
Mileage will go down if you tow a heavy load at decent speeds. Diesels have an optimum rpm range and fuel economy falls of a lot when you get over that. My Excursion is best under 2000 rpm. Highway fuel economy is ~20 mpg (not towing) but that is ~60mph. Take it to 70mph and it drops to 16-17 and goes down from there. Towing is even more extreme because of the exponentially increasing wind drag. With my 8,000 lb trailer, I get 9-11 mph towing at 70 mph (or 55 in big mountains). If I slow to under 60, it climbs to 13-14. My point is that you have to be careful about mpg claims when towing. It is alot like the lap times people claim when there is no official timing.
Finally a comment on diesel fuel prices. In the summer it is usually less than regular gas. There are convenience stations that sell diesel at much higher prices, but that is what you find at volume stations and truckstops. In the winter, diesel is competing with heating oil for the same components of crude so the price tends to rise a bit above regular gas. If you tow a lot, then the added price of the diesel engine will pay for itself over time AND you have the advantage of easier towing.
Bottom line - buy as big a trunk and trailer as you can manage. It will save you in the long run.
There are no substitues (where have I heard that phrase before?) for torque and wheelbase when it comes to towing. Add to that a good hitch and brake controller.
I tow w/ a 7.3 PSD Excursion. With the long wheelbase, good hitch and that motor, I can drive comfortably at almost any speed. It is really no more work to cruise at 75mph than it is 55. On big hills, I can hold 55 or better. My trailer is usually around 8,000 lbs. No real upsets when passing or being passed by semi's nor do crosswinds upset that rig.
If you debating trailer, go with enclosed. I think you will be sorry if you don't. There is more security, ease of use and convenience than you can imagine. I would not go smaller than a 24'. BTW - The V nose that I have seen, measure the box from the tip of the V so a 24' V-nose is about 21-22 ft of full box.
Mileage will go down if you tow a heavy load at decent speeds. Diesels have an optimum rpm range and fuel economy falls of a lot when you get over that. My Excursion is best under 2000 rpm. Highway fuel economy is ~20 mpg (not towing) but that is ~60mph. Take it to 70mph and it drops to 16-17 and goes down from there. Towing is even more extreme because of the exponentially increasing wind drag. With my 8,000 lb trailer, I get 9-11 mph towing at 70 mph (or 55 in big mountains). If I slow to under 60, it climbs to 13-14. My point is that you have to be careful about mpg claims when towing. It is alot like the lap times people claim when there is no official timing.
Finally a comment on diesel fuel prices. In the summer it is usually less than regular gas. There are convenience stations that sell diesel at much higher prices, but that is what you find at volume stations and truckstops. In the winter, diesel is competing with heating oil for the same components of crude so the price tends to rise a bit above regular gas. If you tow a lot, then the added price of the diesel engine will pay for itself over time AND you have the advantage of easier towing.
Bottom line - buy as big a trunk and trailer as you can manage. It will save you in the long run.
06-25-2004, 11:40 AM
#21
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WOW!! ...Danny, I had the EXACT same concerns and I must say the pros FAR outweigh the cons.
On trailer size...I was looking for a 20-footer and found a good 24-footer, I reluctantly purchased it but soon found that I wish I had bought a 28-footer, no lie. You find ways to use up the room FAST!
As for towing and whatnot, what can I say - it does cost to tow an enclosed unit, I bought an extended cab F-250 PSD 6.0 vice getting the CREW cabbed version with dual wheels in the rear, etc. - so I'm using a decent sized rig to tow 8K lbs worth of trailer, when loaded up with the Porsche...~6500lbs with the Toyota Racer and associated gear.
I have to say that while it hits the pocketbook a bit harder than towing 5000lbs around (open trailer + 911 + gear) it's VERY worth it.
Everything that Mike in Chi said is true as well, you'd be amazed at the beer parties that come to fruition during a rainstorm at the end of the day!
It's a relief to just drive where you're going, hotel or track and just park it, locked doors, locked hitch.
I used to carry a 30ft. cable and BIG bike lock for the wheels/gear in the back of my pickup, what a pain to run the cable through everything and remove it when I needed something - now I just close the door and lock it.
If you're ready to make the financial jump to a larger tow rig...and larger trailer, I say do it...word to the wise though - you'll wonder why you ever towed any other way...you'll be spoiled for life!
Truth be told, I kinda wish I hadn't made the jump, then I would never know...and was somewhat happy with my arrangement - but the purchase of an open-cockpit sports racer kind of encouraged me to make the jump.
It's up to you, but if you DO make the decision to go enclosed, I echo many other's opinions on going 24ft. and beyond...and buying an F-250/2500 series Chevy/Dodge to pull it. Also, I have a friend that bought the twin of my F-250 PSD, only with a 10-cyl. GAS motor (same color, size, etc.) we compare costs to tow quite frequently and he wishes he got the PSD.
I get about 11mpg but recently got a software upgrade and started figuring I get about 12mpg now...not too shabby, considering the setup.
As for highway safety, etc. - I can only say that towing that much has made me a better, more watchful driver...and I've learned A LOT about tongue weight and load-balancing, enough to know that it makes a BIG difference when you whizz by the BIG rigs...or they whizz by you!
On trailer size...I was looking for a 20-footer and found a good 24-footer, I reluctantly purchased it but soon found that I wish I had bought a 28-footer, no lie. You find ways to use up the room FAST!
As for towing and whatnot, what can I say - it does cost to tow an enclosed unit, I bought an extended cab F-250 PSD 6.0 vice getting the CREW cabbed version with dual wheels in the rear, etc. - so I'm using a decent sized rig to tow 8K lbs worth of trailer, when loaded up with the Porsche...~6500lbs with the Toyota Racer and associated gear.
I have to say that while it hits the pocketbook a bit harder than towing 5000lbs around (open trailer + 911 + gear) it's VERY worth it.
Everything that Mike in Chi said is true as well, you'd be amazed at the beer parties that come to fruition during a rainstorm at the end of the day!
It's a relief to just drive where you're going, hotel or track and just park it, locked doors, locked hitch.
I used to carry a 30ft. cable and BIG bike lock for the wheels/gear in the back of my pickup, what a pain to run the cable through everything and remove it when I needed something - now I just close the door and lock it.
If you're ready to make the financial jump to a larger tow rig...and larger trailer, I say do it...word to the wise though - you'll wonder why you ever towed any other way...you'll be spoiled for life!
Truth be told, I kinda wish I hadn't made the jump, then I would never know...and was somewhat happy with my arrangement - but the purchase of an open-cockpit sports racer kind of encouraged me to make the jump.
It's up to you, but if you DO make the decision to go enclosed, I echo many other's opinions on going 24ft. and beyond...and buying an F-250/2500 series Chevy/Dodge to pull it. Also, I have a friend that bought the twin of my F-250 PSD, only with a 10-cyl. GAS motor (same color, size, etc.) we compare costs to tow quite frequently and he wishes he got the PSD.
I get about 11mpg but recently got a software upgrade and started figuring I get about 12mpg now...not too shabby, considering the setup.
As for highway safety, etc. - I can only say that towing that much has made me a better, more watchful driver...and I've learned A LOT about tongue weight and load-balancing, enough to know that it makes a BIG difference when you whizz by the BIG rigs...or they whizz by you!
06-25-2004, 02:24 PM
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Originally posted by Robert Henriksen
Oh, Danny's had lots of experience whizzing by the big rigs
Oh, Danny's had lots of experience whizzing by the big rigs
06-25-2004, 02:31 PM
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By the way , highjacking the pics from THIS thread I think ladies and gentlemen we have a winner! Cargopro all aluminum 20 feet box and 5 feet additional nose space at 2400pounds... So that means with me in the truck plus car plus tires,plus tools and luggage I'm looking at a 7000 pound tow...
06-25-2004, 03:13 PM
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Danny
looks good -- workbench and cabinents in the nose, and a tire rack on one wall, and you're set. But you may consider the air conditioning/heat that Mac McGeehee has.
Last edited by Mike in Chi; 06-25-2004 at 05:14 PM.
06-26-2004, 02:36 AM
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Regarding efficiency, a chip/intake combo on a diesel can do wonders in terms of both power and gas mileage. I have one with a small control unit in the cab that has been remarkable, allowing me to easily "dial-in" more power if desired, up to the point where I could probably spin the tires off the car if I wanted. Fuel mileage is up around 30% from stock, so it has the potential to pay for itself over a couple of years of expected use.
Here's a quick comparison of my rig (A) and 3 of my friend on recent trips to club races that are 600 too 1000 miles away from the Denver area. These are at altitudes up to 10,000 feet or so through the passes and at average speeds of 70 MPH or so on the interstates. All figures are estimates, and I' probably underestimating the actual weight of the gear in the enclosed trailers, which may be closer to 8500 lbs.
(These are the model details, trailer weight, MPG, and approximate range.)
A: GMC 2500HD Duramax, chip, ~7500 lb. enclosed Pace trailer/car/gear - 14 MPG, 480 miles
B: Chevy 2500HD Duramax SWB, no chip, ~7500 lbs. enclosed Pace trailer/car/gear, 12 MPG, 300 miles
C: Toyota 4Runner V8, ~4500 lbs. open Trailex trailer/car/gear, 8 MPG, ~180 miles
D: BMW X5 4.4 V8, ~5500 lbs. open steel trailer/car/gear, 8 MPG, ~200 miles
The biggest plus of an open trailer, besides cost, is how much easier they are to drive, park, etc. When I'm trying to follow the open-trailer guys in my rig, it's a bit like being in a vintage big-block trying to follow a Porsche on the track. I can keep up on the straights an even pull on them a bit, especially with a grade, but they can change lanes on a whim while I need to plan a bit more. Two lane highways full of slow big-rigs is a real pain, with the open-trailer guys often several minutes ahead after a long segment where they can pass and I'm stuck.
Finally, I did the "DE trailer" thing and bought a 1500 pickup and open trailer at first. Less than 12 months later I was racing and moved to a 2500HD with enclosed trailer. I managed to sell the open trailer (a Featherlight) for exactly what I paid for it, but I lost some money on the trade for the pickup. In hindsight I would have bought the HD and enclosed trailer in the first place, but at the time I wasn't 100% certain that I'd be racing, or that I'd be doing more than 1 local race per year.
Here's a quick comparison of my rig (A) and 3 of my friend on recent trips to club races that are 600 too 1000 miles away from the Denver area. These are at altitudes up to 10,000 feet or so through the passes and at average speeds of 70 MPH or so on the interstates. All figures are estimates, and I' probably underestimating the actual weight of the gear in the enclosed trailers, which may be closer to 8500 lbs.
(These are the model details, trailer weight, MPG, and approximate range.)
A: GMC 2500HD Duramax, chip, ~7500 lb. enclosed Pace trailer/car/gear - 14 MPG, 480 miles
B: Chevy 2500HD Duramax SWB, no chip, ~7500 lbs. enclosed Pace trailer/car/gear, 12 MPG, 300 miles
C: Toyota 4Runner V8, ~4500 lbs. open Trailex trailer/car/gear, 8 MPG, ~180 miles
D: BMW X5 4.4 V8, ~5500 lbs. open steel trailer/car/gear, 8 MPG, ~200 miles
The biggest plus of an open trailer, besides cost, is how much easier they are to drive, park, etc. When I'm trying to follow the open-trailer guys in my rig, it's a bit like being in a vintage big-block trying to follow a Porsche on the track. I can keep up on the straights an even pull on them a bit, especially with a grade, but they can change lanes on a whim while I need to plan a bit more. Two lane highways full of slow big-rigs is a real pain, with the open-trailer guys often several minutes ahead after a long segment where they can pass and I'm stuck.
Finally, I did the "DE trailer" thing and bought a 1500 pickup and open trailer at first. Less than 12 months later I was racing and moved to a 2500HD with enclosed trailer. I managed to sell the open trailer (a Featherlight) for exactly what I paid for it, but I lost some money on the trade for the pickup. In hindsight I would have bought the HD and enclosed trailer in the first place, but at the time I wasn't 100% certain that I'd be racing, or that I'd be doing more than 1 local race per year.
06-26-2004, 03:51 PM
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Originally posted by Robert Henriksen
Funny - just yesterday on the radio a local dealer was advertising $9,000 off on F250s!
Funny - just yesterday on the radio a local dealer was advertising $9,000 off on F250s!
I got a SMOKING deal from you know who for a GMC 250HD but I got to get the rig across the border and financing is a no go. I'm driving through Alberta this summer and maybe I can get a decent deal there given the fact that Alberta is the Texas of Canada. Not many trucks in BC and the dealers I spoke to are not that eager to make a nice deal...
Again tks to all for the valuable contribution and the help on this matter
