Why are numbers for racing LOWER??
#181
Rennlist Member
Zone 2 Rep and VIR Club Race Chair here. I appreciate the comments on this forum and the email feedback I've received - it's all helpful. I'm a retired DE guy but not a club racer (one Chump race in my resume but we finished P4!). The reality from a chair position is that the VIR race has made money every year until 2024. Sometimes not a lot but enough to pay the deposits for the next year. It's a huge bet to sign the track contract and commit to hosting a $110K plus event and then keep your fingers crossed that racers show up. Both Sebring and VIR were down about 25% this year.
Changes we're looking at for 2025 include only 2 race groups and adding a second DE group to fill out four run groups. That would work for the 103 cars we had this year. May help with the DE to CR transitioned mentioned in this thread. Expect the SAT dinner to be an optional fee. A driver dinner has always been included in the registration fee but most of you don't show up. 80 of the 100 racers checked the "dinner" box in registration but only 40 showed up. Wasted money - and food. I think the trophies are important - at least to the guys that win them. I've given the 1st place trophy to the same driver every year and it seems he likes picking it up. PCA gives us a stipend to cover part of the trophy cost.
Lastly, sponsors for VIR have been a big challenge. We had one this year. Long story, but Zone 2 won't be hosting VIR in 2025 and still talking to Regions interested in taking over. They should be better suited to find sponsors.
Thanks for the feedback and hope to see you at VIR next year!
Changes we're looking at for 2025 include only 2 race groups and adding a second DE group to fill out four run groups. That would work for the 103 cars we had this year. May help with the DE to CR transitioned mentioned in this thread. Expect the SAT dinner to be an optional fee. A driver dinner has always been included in the registration fee but most of you don't show up. 80 of the 100 racers checked the "dinner" box in registration but only 40 showed up. Wasted money - and food. I think the trophies are important - at least to the guys that win them. I've given the 1st place trophy to the same driver every year and it seems he likes picking it up. PCA gives us a stipend to cover part of the trophy cost.
Lastly, sponsors for VIR have been a big challenge. We had one this year. Long story, but Zone 2 won't be hosting VIR in 2025 and still talking to Regions interested in taking over. They should be better suited to find sponsors.
Thanks for the feedback and hope to see you at VIR next year!
#182
I read it the same way. I don't know how much money they have, get from PCA but asking regions to now take the financial risk ......... It does speak volumes IMHO with the lower participation numbers that are being experienced, reported by others.
#183
They are not abandoning the race due to the financials. PCA National has said zones cannot host races, it must be a region due to some legal issues. Zone 2 is therefore trying to get a region to take it over so it remains on the schedule. Watkins Glen will/should be similarly affected.
#186
Rennlist Member
But aren't the real answers from the guys who have left? The guys in the paddock are still playing the game.
Changes we're looking at for 2025 include only 2 race groups and adding a second DE group to fill out four run groups.
The following 2 users liked this post by RobT 394:
LuigiVampa (04-13-2024),
ProCoach (04-13-2024)
#187
WRONGLY ACCUSED!
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
They are not abandoning the race due to the financials. PCA National has said zones cannot host races, it must be a region due to some legal issues. Zone 2 is therefore trying to get a region to take it over so it remains on the schedule. Watkins Glen will/should be similarly affected.
The PCA bylaws, which have not been amended in ten years, could easily be changed to allow for this. It only takes 3% of the membership to propose an amendment and in order not to incur the costs of a separate vote the amendment could be done in conjunction with a general election. The Executive Council has the power to propose amendments as well without the need for 3% of the membership.
Bottom line - instead of pushing the liability to a region PCA could easily give Zones the authority to run races.
Last edited by LuigiVampa; 04-13-2024 at 10:09 AM.
The following 4 users liked this post by LuigiVampa:
Matt Romanowski (04-13-2024),
ProCoach (04-13-2024),
Veloce Raptor (04-13-2024),
will968 (04-13-2024)
The following 3 users liked this post by RobT 394:
#189
Nordschleife Master
This thread has brought out what racers don't like about PCA Club Racing. Some comments are positive, too, but the overall theme is that drivers are leaving because the racing is better elsewhere.
We don't have solid data on what is declining. The latest PCA CR mag says that 92% of racers re-upped their licenses. That seems like a good number but how many new racers are coming in? More than that, how many races are being entered? I wonder if the larger decline is in racers just entering fewer events each year. Clearly, there are fewer events and lower attendance at most.
Maybe the single-marquee event approach is too limited to provide many races and that driving with another organization is necessary to fill a schedule without traveling 1000s of miles. Then PCA becomes secondary.
If PCA Club Racing is going to stop declining, and even grow, it needs to bring in more drivers and that means new racers from the DE ranks. Pulling in, or back, guys racing P-cars from other leagues works, too.
How many new PCA racers have you met in the last year?
We don't have solid data on what is declining. The latest PCA CR mag says that 92% of racers re-upped their licenses. That seems like a good number but how many new racers are coming in? More than that, how many races are being entered? I wonder if the larger decline is in racers just entering fewer events each year. Clearly, there are fewer events and lower attendance at most.
Maybe the single-marquee event approach is too limited to provide many races and that driving with another organization is necessary to fill a schedule without traveling 1000s of miles. Then PCA becomes secondary.
If PCA Club Racing is going to stop declining, and even grow, it needs to bring in more drivers and that means new racers from the DE ranks. Pulling in, or back, guys racing P-cars from other leagues works, too.
How many new PCA racers have you met in the last year?
The following users liked this post:
LuigiVampa (04-13-2024)
#190
WRONGLY ACCUSED!
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
This thread has brought out what racers don't like about PCA Club Racing. Some comments are positive, too, but the overall theme is that drivers are leaving because the racing is better elsewhere.
We don't have solid data on what is declining. The latest PCA CR mag says that 92% of racers re-upped their licenses. That seems like a good number but how many new racers are coming in? More than that, how many races are being entered? I wonder if the larger decline is in racers just entering fewer events each year. Clearly, there are fewer events and lower attendance at most.
Maybe the single-marquee event approach is too limited to provide many races and that driving with another organization is necessary to fill a schedule without traveling 1000s of miles. Then PCA becomes secondary.
If PCA Club Racing is going to stop declining, and even grow, it needs to bring in more drivers and that means new racers from the DE ranks. Pulling in, or back, guys racing P-cars from other leagues works, too.
How many new PCA racers have you met in the last year?
We don't have solid data on what is declining. The latest PCA CR mag says that 92% of racers re-upped their licenses. That seems like a good number but how many new racers are coming in? More than that, how many races are being entered? I wonder if the larger decline is in racers just entering fewer events each year. Clearly, there are fewer events and lower attendance at most.
Maybe the single-marquee event approach is too limited to provide many races and that driving with another organization is necessary to fill a schedule without traveling 1000s of miles. Then PCA becomes secondary.
If PCA Club Racing is going to stop declining, and even grow, it needs to bring in more drivers and that means new racers from the DE ranks. Pulling in, or back, guys racing P-cars from other leagues works, too.
How many new PCA racers have you met in the last year?
#191
Burning Brakes
Originally Posted by GlenL
This thread has brought out what racers don't like about PCA Club Racing. Some comments are positive, too, but the overall theme is that drivers are leaving because the racing is better elsewhere.
Ask anyone where they'd race instead, and they're ultimately left facing the reality that any other SPRINT racing option will mean significantly LESS racing each weekend! That's a fact.
I choose to read this through an optimistic lens that suggests that this very angle - the amount of racing we get each weekend - could be the strategy that gets people back ... and perhaps even new racers in!
The following users liked this post:
Veloce Raptor (04-13-2024)
#192
Rennlist Member
I renewed but have chosen not to race for a few reasons this year. Some due to PCA and some not. Not cost. More personal. So a license renewal data point isn't too meaningful because it's so cheap to renew you'll have a ton of "why not " folks.
The following users liked this post:
LuigiVampa (04-13-2024)
#193
Perfect Angel
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Stubborn leadership has historically been an issue. I've been club racing since 2008 and often times it is made very clear that the concept of a membership driven club is not given much consideration.
For example, when the points championship was implemented I pointed out almost immediately the flaw in the system: only large regions could compete. Really only a handful of racers across the entire country had any shot of winning due to the 10 bonus points. In the very early days of SPB the only regions that had any shot were in Texas and CA.
As a fix I repeatedly emailed that the bonus points should be limited to 5 and points.
After a hard race at WG with DiStefano my trans gave up with 6 minutes to go. Matt earned those points but since I DNF'd he didn't get at least that one. I also suggested that DNF's be counted towards the points.
Fast forward to January of this year and all of a suddenly the bonus points limit is 5 and DNF's are counted. Should have happened years ago but for one bald headed dictator.
And don't get me started on the passing rule. A constant source of conflict that thru sheer obstinance will never ever be clarified. Every other racing organization has a clarified passing rule with established definitions of overlap etc. Every single one.
During a certain bald person's chairmanship you could ask around the paddock and every racer you spoke to would get red in the face and recall a negative experience with said chairman. He was way way out of hand and just belligerent. That was the culture. It's a bad one.
There is no room for that in a member driven club.
None
For example, when the points championship was implemented I pointed out almost immediately the flaw in the system: only large regions could compete. Really only a handful of racers across the entire country had any shot of winning due to the 10 bonus points. In the very early days of SPB the only regions that had any shot were in Texas and CA.
As a fix I repeatedly emailed that the bonus points should be limited to 5 and points.
After a hard race at WG with DiStefano my trans gave up with 6 minutes to go. Matt earned those points but since I DNF'd he didn't get at least that one. I also suggested that DNF's be counted towards the points.
Fast forward to January of this year and all of a suddenly the bonus points limit is 5 and DNF's are counted. Should have happened years ago but for one bald headed dictator.
And don't get me started on the passing rule. A constant source of conflict that thru sheer obstinance will never ever be clarified. Every other racing organization has a clarified passing rule with established definitions of overlap etc. Every single one.
During a certain bald person's chairmanship you could ask around the paddock and every racer you spoke to would get red in the face and recall a negative experience with said chairman. He was way way out of hand and just belligerent. That was the culture. It's a bad one.
There is no room for that in a member driven club.
None
Last edited by Streak; 04-13-2024 at 06:39 PM.
The following 4 users liked this post by Streak:
The following users liked this post:
Streak (04-13-2024)
The following users liked this post:
Veloce Raptor (04-13-2024)