Notices
Racing & Drivers Education Forum
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by:

Goals for the Upcoming HPDE Season

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 02-13-2024, 10:15 AM
  #31  
Jared Rodeheaver
Advanced
 
Jared Rodeheaver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Posts: 75
Received 49 Likes on 30 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by steveP911
Many of the cars I see in Green are a good bit faster than my car. Here's some examples:

Ultima GTR (what the heck is that anyway?)
2015 911 Turbo S
2022 911 Turbo S (640 hp)
2020 GT4
2021 GT4
2023 Audi RS3

Maybe I'm just jealous.
Great cars but you'll find out soon enough that the driver is the biggest key. All of these driven poorly(happens more than you'd think) will get passed and dropped by 300hp and lower cars driven well so don't let the car list worry you. However, be prepared to be frustrated as you ride their bumper in the turns only for them to hit the gas pedal on the straights :0
Old 02-13-2024, 10:19 AM
  #32  
Slakker
Race Car
 
Slakker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Edmond, OK
Posts: 4,775
Received 270 Likes on 124 Posts
Default

Lots of great information in this thread. I was working on 1, 2 and 3 myself last Sunday. Between rain and the SB, there were only 3 of us that showed up at Eagles Canyon and so they cancelled the run groups and made it open track. It was a great opportunity for me to slow down and work on my fundamentals while getting great feedback from the wet track.

1. Vision - The two things I focus on for vision are to have my eyes at least one step ahead of where I'm at (sometimes two) and identifying/using an "eyes up" marker for track out. So if brake marker 3 is where I want to start braking, once I look at it, I have to be able to rely on my body to begin braking when I get to that point while I move my eyes ahead to spot my turn in. Once it begins braking, I move my eyes to the apex and rely on my body to turn in at the spot I already identified. For track out, I'll find anything in the distance beyond the track that I can drive to. A tree, radio tower, billboard, club house, 3rd martin house (T9 Hallet) and focus on it. In reality, my eyes are constantly scanning but my primary focus point needs to be on what's next, not where I'm at.
2. Weight Transfer - It sounds a little silly, but I mentally focus on the sides of my butt cheeks and picture them connected to my four contact patches. In camshaft design, we learn that starting the ramp slower, allows us to accelerate it much faster without upsetting the valve springs. The same is true of the springs on your shocks. So if I start a turn in a little bit earlier with a slow turn of the wheel and then increase the speed the at which I turn it, not only will I have more grip, but it allows me to feel the weight transfer better. The same is true for the brake and throttle.
3. Trailbraking - Many consider mounting an engine out behind the rear axle bad engineering, but Porsche has perfected it. My favorite feeling on track is using my brake pedal to rotate the rear end of my 996 in a slower corner, and just as it's about to go from slip to slide, squeeze the throttle to catch it, transitioning weight to the rear and feeling it grip and rocket out of the hole. It's what makes a 911 so unique and special in my opinion. An isolation exercise I will often do for two or three laps to warm up my tires, mind, and body is a single closing and opening of the steering wheel per corner with my right foot linked to it. Let me try to explain. As I close the wheel to turn in, I begin releasing pressure on the brake in relation to how much I close off the wheel, all the way to the apex. As I begin opening the wheel back up, I transition my foot to throttle and the more I open the wheel, the more I squeeze the throttle until I'm at WOT with the wheel nearly straight. Then I repeat this at the next corner. The more wheel I apply, the less I brake, the more wheel I open, the more I add throttle. If you think of the traction circle, I want to stay out of the inner circle (no coasting) and instead trace around it. This is only an isolation exercise and does NOT improve my lap times while I am doing it. But it's also an exercise that can be done safely on track and the fundamentals that I practice and develop from it improve my lap times significantly.

And while I worked on all three of these on Sunday, my body learns best from isolation and repetition, so I never worked on more than one at a time.
The following 4 users liked this post by Slakker:
Dreamer99 (02-16-2024), ProCoach (02-13-2024), roadie13 (02-13-2024), steveP911 (02-13-2024)
Old 02-13-2024, 11:23 AM
  #33  
steveP911
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
 
steveP911's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Silver Spring, MD
Posts: 794
Received 442 Likes on 230 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Jared Rodeheaver
Great cars but you'll find out soon enough that the driver is the biggest key. All of these driven poorly (happens more than you'd think) will get passed and dropped by 300hp and lower cars driven well so don't let the car list worry you. However, be prepared to be frustrated as you ride their bumper in the turns only for them to hit the gas pedal on the straights :0
I don't worry about "faster cars" although I am mindful of their owners. As I have progressed in driving ability, I have passed a few GT3's, GT4's, and even a GT3RS. I am patient with the type you refer to and try to use those situations as opportunities to focus more on what I am doing. They usually get the message and if not, I run through the hot pit.

Cheers.
The following 2 users liked this post by steveP911:
Jared Rodeheaver (02-13-2024), ProCoach (02-13-2024)
Old 02-13-2024, 11:29 AM
  #34  
steveP911
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
 
steveP911's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Silver Spring, MD
Posts: 794
Received 442 Likes on 230 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Slakker
Lots of great information in this thread. I was working on 1, 2 and 3 myself last Sunday. Between rain and the SB, there were only 3 of us that showed up at Eagles Canyon and so they cancelled the run groups and made it open track. It was a great opportunity for me to slow down and work on my fundamentals while getting great feedback from the wet track.

1. Vision - The two things I focus on for vision are to have my eyes at least one step ahead of where I'm at (sometimes two) and identifying/using an "eyes up" marker for track out. So if brake marker 3 is where I want to start braking, once I look at it, I have to be able to rely on my body to begin braking when I get to that point while I move my eyes ahead to spot my turn in. Once it begins braking, I move my eyes to the apex and rely on my body to turn in at the spot I already identified. For track out, I'll find anything in the distance beyond the track that I can drive to. A tree, radio tower, billboard, club house, 3rd martin house (T9 Hallet) and focus on it. In reality, my eyes are constantly scanning but my primary focus point needs to be on what's next, not where I'm at.
2. Weight Transfer - It sounds a little silly, but I mentally focus on the sides of my butt cheeks and picture them connected to my four contact patches. In camshaft design, we learn that starting the ramp slower, allows us to accelerate it much faster without upsetting the valve springs. The same is true of the springs on your shocks. So if I start a turn in a little bit earlier with a slow turn of the wheel and then increase the speed the at which I turn it, not only will I have more grip, but it allows me to feel the weight transfer better. The same is true for the brake and throttle.
3. Trailbraking - Many consider mounting an engine out behind the rear axle bad engineering, but Porsche has perfected it. My favorite feeling on track is using my brake pedal to rotate the rear end of my 996 in a slower corner, and just as it's about to go from slip to slide, squeeze the throttle to catch it, transitioning weight to the rear and feeling it grip and rocket out of the hole. It's what makes a 911 so unique and special in my opinion. An isolation exercise I will often do for two or three laps to warm up my tires, mind, and body is a single closing and opening of the steering wheel per corner with my right foot linked to it. Let me try to explain. As I close the wheel to turn in, I begin releasing pressure on the brake in relation to how much I close off the wheel, all the way to the apex. As I begin opening the wheel back up, I transition my foot to throttle and the more I open the wheel, the more I squeeze the throttle until I'm at WOT with the wheel nearly straight. Then I repeat this at the next corner. The more wheel I apply, the less I brake, the more wheel I open, the more I add throttle. If you think of the traction circle, I want to stay out of the inner circle (no coasting) and instead trace around it. This is only an isolation exercise and does NOT improve my lap times while I am doing it. But it's also an exercise that can be done safely on track and the fundamentals that I practice and develop from it improve my lap times significantly.

And while I worked on all three of these on Sunday, my body learns best from isolation and repetition, so I never worked on more than one at a time.
Excellent advice, Brandon! Thank you very much for taking the time to put it into clear words.

Interesting and apt butt cheek analogy.
The following 2 users liked this post by steveP911:
ProCoach (02-13-2024), Slakker (02-13-2024)
Old 02-13-2024, 01:25 PM
  #35  
roadie13
Burning Brakes
 
roadie13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: NYC
Posts: 762
Received 230 Likes on 166 Posts
Default

Back to the black group question: one aspect that marks a good black group driver over someone not quite there yet is that they can still drive at 95% of their performance and safety level when the track is busy, other folks are doing odd things, there is wildlife on the track etc; in other words they should be very comfortable being uncomfortable, and safe at all times.

That's the ideal picture of course; you also get a bunch of folks in black who have been there a long time and decided that their fast lap attempt is the only thing that matters.....

The following 2 users liked this post by roadie13:
GC996 (02-13-2024), steveP911 (02-13-2024)
Old 02-13-2024, 04:07 PM
  #36  
steveP911
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
 
steveP911's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Silver Spring, MD
Posts: 794
Received 442 Likes on 230 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by roadie13
Back to the black group question: one aspect that marks a good black group driver over someone not quite there yet is that they can still drive at 95% of their performance and safety level when the track is busy, other folks are doing odd things, there is wildlife on the track etc; in other words they should be very comfortable being uncomfortable, and safe at all times.

That's the ideal picture of course; you also get a bunch of folks in black who have been there a long time and decided that their fast lap attempt is the only thing that matters.....
That was an excellent response. Much appreciated.

So they don't remove your ego enzyme when you get promoted to Black?
Old 02-13-2024, 05:37 PM
  #37  
ProCoach
Rennlist
Basic Site Sponsor
 
ProCoach's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Durham, NC and Virginia International Raceway
Posts: 19,123
Received 3,307 Likes on 1,879 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by steveP911

So they don't remove your ego enzyme when you get promoted to Black?


Don’t even think about what happens in Red!
__________________
-Peter Krause
www.peterkrause.net
www.gofasternow.com
"Combining the Art and Science of Driving Fast!"
Specializing in Professional, Private Driver Performance Evaluation and Optimization
Consultation Available Remotely and at VIRginia International Raceway






















The following 2 users liked this post by ProCoach:
Slakker (02-14-2024), steveP911 (02-13-2024)
Old 02-13-2024, 05:46 PM
  #38  
LuigiVampa
WRONGLY ACCUSED!
Rennlist Member
 
LuigiVampa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: PCA Gulag
Posts: 14,970
Received 4,393 Likes on 1,929 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by ProCoach


Don’t even think about what happens in Red!
Red with a Cup car is the highest and best form of driver.


Old 02-13-2024, 05:58 PM
  #39  
DC991
Intermediate
 
DC991's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 31
Likes: 0
Received 21 Likes on 11 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by steveP911
I couldn't agree more. I think a Black promotion at PCA Potomac is not easy to come by. I have not been pushy for my past promotions and I don't expect to change that. Maybe my biggest point was making sure I do have all of the requisite skills and awareness to drive in Black.

Thanks LV.
For PCA Potomac Black - when you feel you are ready, you have to request a checkout ride from one of the DE Chief Instructors, there is usually a small list so it might not happen at the current event. You have to take the initiative, it won't happen otherwise. Situational awareness is a critical thing they will be observing you on - can you run with that group and not slow anyone up, miss flags etc. Don't fear the passing in the corners, think of it as a driving offline exercise, yes you will be slow at first but you can practice that in white right now.. There are plenty of well driven slow cars in black but they almost always give the point by without the faster car having to lift off the throttle. For me that felt like the biggest difference between driving in white and then moving to black. You made it to solo, you still ride with an instructor from time to time so you may be ready now. Get a ride along in black and if you are comfortable then go request that checkout ride. Worst thing that will happen is they will give you a couple of things to work on and you can try again latter. Good Luck!
The following 2 users liked this post by DC991:
dgrobs (02-13-2024), steveP911 (02-13-2024)
Old 02-13-2024, 06:10 PM
  #40  
dgrobs
Rennlist Member
 
dgrobs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: The Swamps of Jersey/WGI/VIR...
Posts: 6,688
Received 1,817 Likes on 1,209 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by DC991
For PCA Potomac Black - when you feel you are ready, you have to request a checkout ride from one of the DE Chief Instructors, there is usually a small list so it might not happen at the current event. You have to take the initiative, it won't happen otherwise. Situational awareness is a critical thing they will be observing you on - can you run with that group and not slow anyone up, miss flags etc. Don't fear the passing in the corners, think of it as a driving offline exercise, yes you will be slow at first but you can practice that in white right now.. There are plenty of well driven slow cars in black but they almost always give the point by without the faster car having to lift off the throttle. For me that felt like the biggest difference between driving in white and then moving to black. You made it to solo, you still ride with an instructor from time to time so you may be ready now. Get a ride along in black and if you are comfortable then go request that checkout ride. Worst thing that will happen is they will give you a couple of things to work on and you can try again latter. Good Luck!
I run in red with Potomac, and I am probably in the bottom 10-20% in terms of pace in that run group (lots of Cup cars, Jays car, etc.) and I always take my 981S Cayman to SPM. It’s not about pace with Potomac. It’s all about awareness, and that’s exactly how it should be. I remember when Brian gave me my check out into red some years back, and while he told me I was off the pace for that run group, my awareness was fine and into red I went. I like Potomacs red run group a lot. It’s a true red run group. No lifts are ever necessary, and that’s why it’s about awareness and not pace with Potomac.
I assume the same in black with them as I run in that group as well sometimes. Awareness is better in red for sure, it has to be with those monster cars, but in my experience, Potomac puts awareness ahead of anything else in those upper run groups, and that’s why those upper run groups (esp red), are as good as they are. While I will never be able to hold off a Cup car, I’ll never make them lift either and they always get by me without giving up any of their pace.
All about that pesky 360 degree thing with Potomac. It’s why those are some of the best upper run groups in the business.
YMMV (but I don’t think it will)….
The following 4 users liked this post by dgrobs:
ANGST (02-14-2024), KJinDC (02-14-2024), R717 (02-15-2024), steveP911 (02-13-2024)
Old 02-15-2024, 11:43 AM
  #41  
Manifold
Rennlist Member
 
Manifold's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Mid-Atlantic (on land, not in the middle of the ocean)
Posts: 13,311
Received 4,496 Likes on 2,558 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by steveP911
I couldn't agree more. I think a Black promotion at PCA Potomac is not easy to come by. I have not been pushy for my past promotions and I don't expect to change that. Maybe my biggest point was making sure I do have all of the requisite skills and awareness to drive in Black.

Thanks LV.
Honestly, Black in Potomac is not that big a deal. Here's what's needed:

- At least a few dozen track days of experience at various tracks, preferably including experience driving on wet tracks

- Pace is decent for the car/tires (say at least 7/10ths) and good car control

- Good SA, always seeing other cars, always seeing the flags, aware of when things are 'not normal' with your car, your self, the track surface, behavior of other drivers

- Comfortable with passing and being passed anywhere on the track, and therefore comfortable with being off line, and courteous in interacting with other drivers

You need to ask for a Black checkout, otherwise you'll remain in White much longer than you should.
The following 2 users liked this post by Manifold:
ProCoach (02-15-2024), steveP911 (02-15-2024)



Quick Reply: Goals for the Upcoming HPDE Season



All times are GMT -3. The time now is 04:46 PM.