I used to only do non PCA events until I got my Cayman , now I have been doing mostly PCA events .

3 main differences and a question :

1) PCA focuses on "approved" shop doing the tech inspections , or you can get them done at a PCA "tech day" . Chin allows self tech , HOD you basically just check off on the website that your car is good.
I took my car to "tech day" for the first time , I didn't really find the "inspectors" there any more knowledgeable than I was , not to say they didn't know anything.

2) PCA focuses on education . I am still in instructed groups in PCA , solo with other orgs. I love being able to have an instructor with me , there is always improvements to be made.

3) PCA is not for profit , generally cheaper track fees , volunteers to help out . It is good to do some work up on grid to see what's going on .

Given the points mentioned in 1 and 2, the question arises: Does this translate into fewer incidents at PCA events? My personal observations don't seem to support this. During the most recent PCA event I attended, we encountered a significant number of mechanical issues, a few instances of cars leaving the track, and even a minor collision. Strikingly, this level of incidents appeared comparable to what I've witnessed at HOD and Chin events. Interestingly, when I mention Chin's "happy hour" concept, where all groups gain access to the track for the final hour, exclusive PCA participants often express surprise at its safety. It's worth noting that in my experience spanning over six Chin events, I haven't encountered any issues.

 

Frankly the level of vehicle inspection is pretty similar with most groups and many send out Self-Tech sheets prior to an event. I like this idea to a point since it gets folks to go over things necessary for a safe track event and when accompanied by a on track inspection, it doubles down your check up towards a safe event.

With Chin and PCA these events are non timed and most Track Insurance Companies feel this is a safer environment since there is no actual competition taking place. With NASA ( National AutoSport Association ) the only listed times are for those in the Races or Time Trials ( both allow unlimited passing ). Doing HPDEs with NASA ( which starts with Level 1 and goes up to Level 4 ) will not only get you a similar track environment to PCA or Chin, it will get you a track Logbook and you can have an Instructor ride with you, especially in Level 1 and 2. Instruction is the key, so you will drive with a variety of Instructors and since this is one of your goals I would definitely look into this Organization. As a PCA and NASA Instructor these are the two groups I recommend. Keep in mind, NASA also gives you a next level track experience, since you do have the ability to go through the 4 levels and then get a Time Trial license , where you can run for competition, trophies and time.

I hope this is of some help and drop me a PM if you wish or have other questions.

 

I think a large factor in this past weekend was the heat, Summit was HOT! Track was slick and so much stress on the cars.

 

Not really sure what you are trying to say here? Do you want PCA to allow self tech? I think a big part of the tech day is to help people who haven't done a whole lot of HPDE events, who don't have a shop to go to, to have a mechanic look over their car. Personally I think this is a good thing. Also don't forget PCA (at least our region) requires tech every day. You know I work the morning tech line, we've caught MANY cars that had issues day 2 or day 3, no brakes left, corded tires, etc.

I don't think you can try to relate these two things, there are way too many variables, also incidents aren't limited to just mechanicals and collisions ... in our region I've driven with PCA, NASA, Chin, Trackdaze, HOD, SCCA, CCC, FATT, and probably some that I'm forgetting. Oddly enough I've felt safer at different points in each of those organizations. Take PCA and Chin, which you've highlighted. With PCA I've felt most safe in green and blue where there is a HUGE focus on education. With Chin I hated running in their yellow group where (in my opinion) they effectively combined green, blue, and white into one; but their red group (which is where I run with them now) is awesome, super safe, pretty fast, and generally a great time. Not going to call out any groups, but I've done a few events with a particular group in our region where they've had MULTIPLE cars go off, and flip, on the first lap! This had nothing to do with tech ...

Interesting to hear you say this, you've heard me say a number of times how I wish PCA would do this as it provides a great look at extended passing in a very safe environment. And I know a lot of PCA people agree with me.

 

PCA allows "peer" tech in the Red/Black run groups and I have seen someone in Black almost lose a wheel because they did not torque their lug bolts ( luckily not on the track ) . I just don't see the orgs that allow self-tech seem to have any more issues than PCA.

Oh and I semi-agree on the yellow group with Chin , and I may try and run in their intermediate .

 

Your region allows instructors to peer tech, not Black and Red. That has been my experience. I could be wrong, but AFAIK, only instructors peer tech each other's cars. Everyone else goes through tech, regardless of run group.

I think PCA tech, done correctly and every day (as your region does), is a good thing. You'd be amazed what gets caught in the tech line.

As for Chin, I love running with them, but the first 2 Chin events at The Glen this year was pure carnage. Thankfully, no one was hurt. The 3rd was better.

I've also been at many many Chin events where everything ran smooth as silk. I think it's more the drivers than the tech line, but some groups don't want to do tech because of liability issues. PCA always does at least one day of tech, and that's a really good thing IMHO....

 

Volunteer to work morning tech with your PCA region. You'll see the "interesting" stuff that gets caught in the tech line, and that's with pre-event tech inspection.

It would take some work to capture enough data to make a compelling argument one way or the other, but anecdotally pre-event tech inspection and morning tech each day certainly catches stuff before it turns into something worse.

 

Can't speak to the East Coast groups, but on the West Coast, I'd rate PCA or BMWCCA events as easily the safest. Also the best run...
HOD has a great rep, but I've never run with them.
NASA? Watch your ***!
Other than the minor time spent, no issues with the PCA tech line. Follow the inspection sheet, and it'll breeze through.

 

I love running with HOD. Their D group is awesome, as are the other 3 groups.
Just did 3 days with them at VIR 2 weeks ago. Fantastic event and ridiculous amount of track time, and a great (and beautiful) student to boot. (Had trouble concentrating at first).
Agree on the PCA and BMWCCA being the safest and best run. That's been my experience as well.

 

While there are differences from PCA region to PCA region I think there is a bigger difference going from a non-profit group to a for-profit group.

In my experience, for-profit HPDE groups tend to promote much quicker, and that means more inexperienced drivers in higher run groups. They make more money promoting people because green students are limited to the number of instructor while solo drivers are only limited by how many the track can accommodate.

I drove a couple of years ago with a for-profit group in their most advanced run group and for me it was like driving in the green run group. It was a complete mess with people doing all kinds of stupid things.

There are other non-profit groups which are horror shows as well. I drove with another car club, which I will not name but is known for red cars, and it was the most complete $hitshow I have ever witnessed in my life. A car actually entered the track at Lime Rock by going straight out next to the EMS building and then making a right on the track. They even let the guy drive for the rest of the day instead of making him go home. It was crazy!

All that being said, I think PCA has some of the best programs out there.

 

Hmmmm...another car club that is known for red cars.....

 

"In my experience, for-profit HPDE groups tend to promote much quicker, and that means more inexperienced drivers in higher run groups. They make more money promoting people because green students are limited to the number of instructor while solo drivers are only limited by how many the track can accommodate."
-LV.
And there's a little natural selection going on, too.
As prematurely promoted drivers crash their cars, there's less crowding on the track.
So they got that going for them...

 

Darwinism at its finest!! Well played...

 

The only downside is if you become collateral damage to someone else's Darwin moment.

I will say that on the private side David Murray runs a tight ship. Group 52 was really good as well, but sadly, it is no more.

 

Grumpy T shirt guy...lol.

G52, if you brought someone, and they f'ed up, you were BOTH gone!! Good incentive to behave.