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Wow, that's a lot of work... see the attached photo. (old photo with the stock MPSC2's mounted). If you are only going for one set of wheels and tires, that you drive to the track, and that you will run in the wet, Then the Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2's on your 19's (or new Apex '19's), would be the best all around choice, from my experience. They have 245/35/19 and 305/30/19 sizes, which is the right set-up, and they work great in the wet and dry. Note: I would not street any of your other choices, all are REALLY NOISY on the street. Mind numbingly so. My set up: the '19 factory wheels are now sporting Conti all-season's and are on the shelf in my basement. I have gone with Apex '18 Anthracite SM-10's running Michelin Pilot Super Sports for my street/wet set-up, and the '18 Apex SM-10's in silver, running Nitto 01's as my dry set-up (note: I only DE and was able to get 2 sets of wheels and tires for less money that one set of forged wheels with tires - thanks Ryan!). So, I can drive to the track safely -- rain or shine -- set up/tear down in the paddock easily, and either run my "wet" or "dry" set as needed. My trailer stashed easily in my garage and I don't have to pay all that extra money for a large trailer and tow vehicle (don't want tow vehicle daily driver. If you have that need, then maybe a trailer would work for you). My two cents. good luck!
Thanks Papamurphdog! Love that name. And I really like how those silver SM-10's look on your 997 since that is the route I am planning. I think your approach seems very well thought out and I could seeing morphing (or is it murphing) in that direction in a year or so. But I think I will start out with the lobster/MPS4S as my winter set, and the Apex 19 / Falken RT660 as my fun / DE set. I was interested in trying a new brand and the MPSC2 price was $500 per set higher anyway. Radial Tire of Silver Spring is working up a price for all that now since they sell Apex and Falken. I am hopeful that the RT660 will be okay enough in the rain, because I don't care to sit out wet sessions. I'll bring my lobster/MPS4S set along in case the weather looks significantly rainy. If I pull the trigger on a more dedicated track set it would be the 18" Apex SM-10 and Nitto NT01's in the 245/40-305/35 sizes. I can see my wife wondering what I'm doing with all these wheels and tires in the basement.
Thanks for all your friendly advice. Cheers,
Steve
+1 for Apex Wheels! Ryan there goes above and beyond to earn your business and provide helpful info on wheel and tire options, fitments, etc.
I have two sets of Apex wheels for my 981 Cayman S. I bought a new set from Ryan (black forged) and picked up another a used set from Rennlister (anthracite flow-formed) as back-ups. Both look great on black car.
I ran the black forged set all season last year (~10 HPDEs) with NT01s then switched to Ventus RS4s about mid season. The black forged wheels held up and still look great.
+1 for Apex Wheels! Ryan there goes above and beyond to earn your business and provide helpful info on wheel and tire options, fitments, etc.
I have two sets of Apex wheels for my 981 Cayman S. I bought a new set from Ryan (black forged) and picked up another a used set from Rennlister (anthracite flow-formed) as back-ups. Both look great on black car.
I ran the black forged set all season last year (~10 HPDEs) with NT01s then switched to Ventus RS4s about mid season. The black forged wheels held up and still look great.
Thanks FastGuy. I totally agree with you about Apex and Ryan. Do you have 18's or 19's or one set of each? Glad to hear you are still happy with the wheels. I am in the process of setting up the order now, but I'll have to wait a couple months for the Race Silver finish. Maybe I should have gone with the in-stock anthracite or black... Why did you switch from NT01's to RS4's?
Both Apex wheel sets are 18s. I wanted consistent sizing between both sets for track days. I love the NT01s for the track, but they were on backorder when I needed another set last year. I was able to get my hands on some RS4s, which I wanted to try anyways since some of the endurance guys that I've run into use them.
I like both tires for my car and what I'm doing, which is ~6-10 HPDE's (intermediate groups) a year. The NT01's dry hook up is monstrous and they last like hell for a tire in this category IMO. Not good in the wet though.
I think you get a lot for the money with RS4s and they're more versatile than NT01s. They may be a bit slower than NT01s, but they're less expensive and hook up well in the dry, but they're way better in the wet and more pleasurable to drive on the street vs. NT01s.
This season I plan on running the NT01s on the Apex forged as my primary track day set up, and then having the RS4s ready on the Apex flow-formed for bad / wet track days & street use.
Both Apex wheel sets are 18s. I wanted consistent sizing between both sets for track days. I love the NT01s for the track, but they were on backorder when I needed another set last year. I was able to get my hands on some RS4s, which I wanted to try anyways since some of the endurance guys that I've run into use them.
I like both tires for my car and what I'm doing, which is ~6-10 HPDE's (intermediate groups) a year. The NT01's dry hook up is monstrous and they last like hell for a tire in this category IMO. Not good in the wet though.
I think you get a lot for the money with RS4s and they're more versatile than NT01s. They may be a bit slower than NT01s, but they're less expensive and hook up well in the dry, but they're way better in the wet and more pleasurable to drive on the street vs. NT01s.
This season I plan on running the NT01s on the Apex forged as my primary track day set up, and then having the RS4s ready on the Apex flow-formed for bad / wet track days & street use.
Hope this helps.
Yup, Nitto's are on back-order. I have two sets on order from my local shop and they are supposed to be here and a few weeks, or less. I'll post here when they arrive (otherwise going to need to re-think drys). Might run in early March, but first dance is the Peachstate DE at Road Atlanta on April 8-10, so hopefully the shoes will arrive before rethinking becomes a problem.
Both Apex wheel sets are 18s. I wanted consistent sizing between both sets for track days. I love the NT01s for the track, but they were on backorder when I needed another set last year. I was able to get my hands on some RS4s, which I wanted to try anyways since some of the endurance guys that I've run into use them.
I like both tires for my car and what I'm doing, which is ~6-10 HPDE's (intermediate groups) a year. The NT01's dry hook up is monstrous and they last like hell for a tire in this category IMO. Not good in the wet though.
I think you get a lot for the money with RS4s and they're more versatile than NT01s. They may be a bit slower than NT01s, but they're less expensive and hook up well in the dry, but they're way better in the wet and more pleasurable to drive on the street vs. NT01s.
This season I plan on running the NT01s on the Apex forged as my primary track day set up, and then having the RS4s ready on the Apex flow-formed for bad / wet track days & street use.
Hope this helps.
Thanks Fastguy. Interesting option there that I hadn't considered. But when I check the Hankook site, the only front/rear set that looks like it would work on my car is the 235/40-18 and the 285/35-18. That's a drop in width from my current 295 rear. Other RS4 choices don't afford the desired 1/2"-3/4" OD step-up from front to rear. So I guess the RS4 size options work better for your 981 Cayman S than my 997.1S.
Thanks though. Appreciate the information. Hope all your sets work well for you this year!
After probably a bit too much studying on this, I pulled the trigger on my wheels/tires decision. Very grateful to Ryan at Apex Race Parts (https://support.apexraceparts.com/hc/en-us) and Paul and Sam at Radial Tire of Silver Spring MD. They were very patient and knowledgeable.
Wheels: Apex SM-10, front 18X9 ET46 and rear 18X11 ET60 (21 and 22.4 lbs respectively, so about 13 lbs lighter than my current lobsters). I got them in Race Silver, which I like for my black car. Image below is from Apex (is it PapaMurphdog?).
Tires: Maybe this is a surprise but I am going with the new Continental (aka Hoosier) ExtremeContactForce. Kind of a wordy name. I read good reviews on Tire Rack (https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests...y.jsp?ttid=273) and Grassroots Motorsports (https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/ar...-buyers-guide/), and got a good reference from a local DE driver who used them last season. My goal was to get 245 in front and 305 in the rear, but I did not find that to be available in a 200tw tire. My "goal" tire of the Nitto NT01's does have both of those sizes, but I decided against getting them now so that I make more of a gradual transition from 300tw to 200tw to 100tw (if I can earn that). So the sizes I got in the ECF tires are 245/35 and 315/30. Yup, I know that's a bit fat in the rear, but I researched the wheel and car fitment and didn't find issues. And I also know it's more tire than I need/want in the rear but I had to get off the pot. The image below is from the Continental site. Does the tread design look familiar? RE71R?
In conjunction with reshoeing, I am adding more negative camber, courtesy of a set of camber plates from Tarett (996FSMT @ $450 pair). I think these work for me since I am only after another about another degree, and I have 1-1/2 now. Plan is 2-1/4 in front and 2 in rear. I am also doing front and rear sway bars with drop links, also from Tarett. Continuing my plunge down the money slope, I am pulling the PCCB rotors and pads and replacing with Girodisc rotors and Ferodo DS2500 pads, in order to save me a huge bill when the rotors crap out. Final bit of $ is to install the 1/2 qt spacer and baffle set from Tarett for my oil sump, as a measure of added protection for my 17 year old motor (not because of my driving).
Registered for 5 PCA Potomac events - 2X SP Main, VIR, WGI, Pitt Race (new to me) - and two FATT events at Summit Point (Friday At The Track - kinda nice to sprinkle in some one day'ers). Total of 15 days. I worry I am too excited for this season.
Very grateful for all the knowledge/experience in this forum - plenty of wisdom to be found. It has been extremely useful, and often very entertaining!
Nice! Thanks for the informative read. I have a car with a near identical setup as yours:
2006 Carrera S
Ohlins R&T coilovers
GT3 LCA's, thrust arm bushings - -2.3F / -2.0R camber alignment
Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2's - 255/35/19 tires in the front, 305/30/19 tires in the rear
20 DE's (started track driving a year ago!)
Last weekend I had a rear tire tear at the inner sidewall - I was running Hankook RS4's and had 10 track days on them. When I searched to replace them my only option in the size and TW I wanted were the Cup'2 at $2k! They performed amazingly yesterday at Sonoma but I'm told they heat cycle out quick so that has me evaluating a more economical long term solution. I love my 19" BBS RS-GT wheels but I think I can save money in the long run with getting 18" rims.
Thanks to your spreadsheet and cost analysis, I think I convinced myself to visit APEX wheels (local to me) and work with them to get a new wheel setup!
Nice! Thanks for the informative read. I have a car with a near identical setup as yours:
2006 Carrera S
Ohlins R&T coilovers
GT3 LCA's, thrust arm bushings - -2.3F / -2.0R camber alignment
Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2's - 255/35/19 tires in the front, 305/30/19 tires in the rear
20 DE's (started track driving a year ago!)
Last weekend I had a rear tire tear at the inner sidewall - I was running Hankook RS4's and had 10 track days on them. When I searched to replace them my only option in the size and TW I wanted were the Cup'2 at $2k! They performed amazingly yesterday at Sonoma but I'm told they heat cycle out quick so that has me evaluating a more economical long term solution. I love my 19" BBS RS-GT wheels but I think I can save money in the long run with getting 18" rims.
Thanks to your spreadsheet and cost analysis, I think I convinced myself to visit APEX wheels (local to me) and work with them to get a new wheel setup!
Happy to help and great to hear that you are local! If you are coming from RS-4s and would like an affordable tire that is a bit faster but still wears like iron, I would definitely suggest moving to a set of our 18" wheels paired with 245/40-18 front, 305/35-18 rear Nitto NT01s.
Nice! Thanks for the informative read. I have a car with a near identical setup as yours:
2006 Carrera S
Ohlins R&T coilovers
GT3 LCA's, thrust arm bushings - -2.3F / -2.0R camber alignment
Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2's - 255/35/19 tires in the front, 305/30/19 tires in the rear
20 DE's (started track driving a year ago!)
Last weekend I had a rear tire tear at the inner sidewall - I was running Hankook RS4's and had 10 track days on them. When I searched to replace them my only option in the size and TW I wanted were the Cup'2 at $2k! They performed amazingly yesterday at Sonoma but I'm told they heat cycle out quick so that has me evaluating a more economical long term solution. I love my 19" BBS RS-GT wheels but I think I can save money in the long run with getting 18" rims.
Thanks to your spreadsheet and cost analysis, I think I convinced myself to visit APEX wheels (local to me) and work with them to get a new wheel setup!
Happy I can provide any help. It's usually the other way around in this DE forum. Wow, that's a lot of DE's in around one year! Glad you will be talking with Ryan. In case you haven't gone through their whole website, check out their 997 C2S fitment page (https://support.apexraceparts.com/hc...-Fitment-Guide). Very helpful to me.
Happy to help and great to hear that you are local! If you are coming from RS-4s and would like an affordable tire that is a bit faster but still wears like iron, I would definitely suggest moving to a set of our 18" wheels paired with 245/40-18 front, 305/35-18 rear Nitto NT01s.
- Ryan
That's exactly what I'm running and I love them! (thanks Ryan). Get an extra set of tires though. Can't just snap your fingers and get tires lately.
Ok, everything finished up last Friday, so I though I would share some pics and results. Again, these are Apex SM-10 wheels - 18X9 ET 46 in front and 18X11 ET60 in the rear. The finish is Race Silver. Tires are Continental ExtremeContactForce, which is a new product made by the merged Continental/Hoosier company - 245/35 in front and 315/30 in the rear.
From my previous set of Michelin Pilot Sport 4S tires, the reduced OD (25.8 to 24.8 front and 26.3 to 25.4 in the rear) means almost a 1/2" more fender gap (which I don't prefer) along with a 1/2" drop in ride height. Certainly okay with the ride height drop for the track but I'll have to be even more careful on the street. Also, my "low profile" jack didn't quite fit until I modified my hockey puck insert a little bit. FWIW, I will get about 3.5%-4.0% more traction and braking force. Not a big deal, but worth noting.
Only done a bit of typical highway/road driving since Friday. Everything feels good so far but I have a bit more earnest driving to be done before the Summit event in two weeks. I will say that the Continentals do not appear to have noticeable road noise, at least they're not worse than the MPS4S tires I had previously.
My alignment settings to go with this are now:
Negative Camber - Front 2.24' / 2.23' & Rear 2.08' / 2.07'
Toe - Front 01' / 01' & Rear 12' / 11'
Thanks to Ryan at Apex, Paul at Radial Tire, and Geoff at AutoSportSystems Group for their excellent help and service.
Ok, everything finished up last Friday, so I though I would share some pics and results. Again, these are Apex SM-10 wheels - 18X9 ET 46 in front and 18X11 ET60 in the rear. The finish is Race Silver. Tires are Continental ExtremeContactForce, which is a new product made by the merged Continental/Hoosier company - 245/35 in front and 315/30 in the rear.
From my previous set of Michelin Pilot Sport 4S tires, the reduced OD (25.8 to 24.8 front and 26.3 to 25.4 in the rear) means almost a 1/2" more fender gap (which I don't prefer) along with a 1/2" drop in ride height. Certainly okay with the ride height drop for the track but I'll have to be even more careful on the street. Also, my "low profile" jack didn't quite fit until I modified my hockey puck insert a little bit. FWIW, I will get about 3.5%-4.0% more traction and braking force. Not a big deal, but worth noting.
Only done a bit of typical highway/road driving since Friday. Everything feels good so far but I have a bit more earnest driving to be done before the Summit event in two weeks. I will say that the Continentals do not appear to have noticeable road noise, at least they're not worse than the MPS4S tires I had previously.
My alignment settings to go with this are now:
Negative Camber - Front 2.24' / 2.23' & Rear 2.08' / 2.07'
Toe - Front 01' / 01' & Rear 12' / 11'
Thanks to Ryan at Apex, Paul at Radial Tire, and Geoff at AutoSportSystems Group for their excellent help and service.
Cheers,
Steve
The car looks killer, Steve! I have always been a sucker for silver wheels on a black 911 with yellow brakes & belts popping through.
Too bad they don't make the Extremecontact Force in 255/35-18 as that would have been perfect up front.
01-13-2022 | 07:49 PM
And I really like how those silver SM-10's look on your 997 since that is the route I am planning. I think your approach seems very well thought out and I could seeing morphing (or is it murphing) in that direction in a year or so. But I think I will start out with the lobster/MPS4S as my winter set, and the Apex 19 / Falken RT660 as my fun / DE set. I was interested in trying a new brand and the MPSC2 price was $500 per set higher anyway. Radial Tire of Silver Spring is working up a price for all that now since they sell Apex and Falken. I am hopeful that the RT660 will be okay enough in the rain, because I don't care to sit out wet sessions. I'll bring my lobster/MPS4S set along in case the weather looks significantly rainy. If I pull the trigger on a more dedicated track set it would be the 18" Apex SM-10 and Nitto NT01's in the 245/40-305/35 sizes. I can see my wife wondering what I'm doing with all these wheels and tires in the basement. 
Why did you switch from NT01's to RS4's?
Wow, that's a lot of DE's in around one year! Glad you will be talking with Ryan. In case you haven't gone through their whole website, check out their 997 C2S fitment page (https://support.apexraceparts.com/hc...-Fitment-Guide). Very helpful to me.
