That's easy. When I say "not being competitive" I am talking about competing for a position on the podium. That says nothing about being faster than drivers at "my" level. The level of old guys who can only afford a dozen track days per year.

I already raced in SP2 and F class. First time around I learned that having honest expectations goes a long way towards getting your head straight. This time I realize full well that most of us older dudes just starting out in racing are not competitive in the beginning and trying to be competitive if you can't afford 50 track days per season is a fools game. That in no way means I never want to be competitive, it just means for now I'm just wanting to build on my previous experience so someday - maybe 2 or 3 seasons from now - I can be competitive or at least run mid-pack. Not all of us want to be "at the pointy end", and good thing to otherwise there would be a fraction of racers. In addition, some of my best times at races were going up against other drivers at my level. Not being "competitive" doesn't mean one doesn't want to be faster than others. DE's are great places to gain track time, but ultimately DE's are nothing like wheel to wheel racing so "tooling around" on a DE day is not what I want.

I am lucky enough to be a member of the Lime Rock Driver's Club so my plan right now is to get 10 days at LRP in 2021 with Simon Kirkby and Jonathan Goring plus whatever DE days I can do at WGI and NJMP all with the goal of getting back into racing in the 2022 season.

 

Joe, it would be my pleasure to share the track with you, no matter what car you're in. I actually though that you still owned your Cayman R and would be able to do DE with it - my bad. When I work a race in PCA, I always think that the SP and SPB guys have the most fun out there so that would be my recommendation. If you have your heart set on this SST car, which is the platform you have the most experience with, I would make an H class car or a Spec Cayman out of it. The brakes already look stock. You will have to switch out the GT3 front bumper with a stock one, will need to take off the GT3 throttle body, IPD plenum, take out the tune out and put an original rear hatch on. This will cost $$$ but you should sell most of the parts like front bumper and hatch for $. Make sure you get the original headlights, the original rear window and original plenum with the purchase and at least one more set of wheels and a set of rain tires. Check for over-revs. I wouldn't buy it with any Range 3 (or above) overrevs. Whatever you decided to do, enjoy the experience!

 

Thanks for that Frank! Means a lot.

Although things are better for me enough that I can return, I will still be counting every penny in an attempt to get as many track days as I can so spending money on this car now, if not necessary, would not be my first choice. My plan now for the 2021 season is to attend LRDC track days and a couple PCA DE days at WGI and NJMP and not re-enter PCA races until LRP in 2022.

What do you think about the idea of buying this car and leaving it as is for this season and converting it to H class over the winter 21-22? Would the conversion dramatically change the performance such that it would negate the 2021 practice?

Anyways, many, many thanks for all your thoughts. They are VERY much appreciated.

No matter what I'm just happy to have "First World Problems" like what class PCA race car to buy

Joe

 

I'm glad you expanded on your thoughts. You are looking at reasonable results with a reasonable amount of effort - I get it. When I drove my Gen1 Cayman in GTB1 it was because I wanted to explore the class before I invested in a new car. If I finished ahead of any Gen2 cars I counted it as a win in my book. That was my personal goal at the time and you sound like you have similar modest goals.

My opinion is that even if you want to have those mid-pack battles, which can be a lot of fun, I think the car you want to buy is better served running in SPC, G or H. You will have better mid-pack battles in those classes and there is a huge amount of competitive racing going on. Bottom line - that car in GTB1 will run at the back of the pack and it won't be fun based on what you say you want to accomplish.

Your plan to work with Simon and Jonathan is solid. I am a big advocate of pro coaches as they can get you back up to speed, and to the next level, which is harder to do on your own.

I want to make sure you know I would love to see you back in the SST paddock. I'm a huge advocate of anyone who wants to get out on track - DE or racing. My opinion, for what it is worth, and based on your further explanation, is to buy that car but don't run it in GTB1. I feel like you won't have as much fun as if you don't run the car in a class which is appropriate it.

Either way - hope to see you racing with SST in 2021!

 

Again, while I think Frank and LV’s advice is solid for SOMEONE LOOKING TO RUN AT THE POINTY END of one of the most competitive classes in PCA Club Racing, it’s just them relating THEIR approach to purchasing a car with the END GOAL of doing that. Heck, Frank punched above his weight for years with a Gen1 car, and LV has marched steadily up the order.

But that is NOT what the OP is asking or intending to do.

As a matter of fact, he shows extraordinary clarity in recognizing that, while that is something SOME people might find overriding in importance (the purchase of a COMPETITIVE car), this is NOT his current or foreseeable goal. From the perspective of someone who KNOWS the deal.

Put Grant or Jonathan or Scott Heckert in this car and they’ll haul it further forward than most think possible into the mix, perhaps.

But JP66 has defined his expectations well, is well aware, has and will make educated decisions about the steps to go forward with both eyes open and knows the right questions to ask and the right places to ask them. Give him some credit. I stand by my post. This is a good value for a car that would serve the OP well (assuming it checks out) in HIS stated objectives and to achieve HIS stated goals.

 

Joe - of course you could make work with what you have, but if you want to prepare for racing I would at least take the tune, throttle body and IPD plenum off. You don't need any of that to have fun and get back into it and the engine might prove more reliable also. The 987.1 engines are not know for their reliability. That way, you will not have a bad experience when it is time to de-tune the car to get it into a PCA Letter Class. I have never seen that work out well.

 

Thanks Todd. I can't tell you how much I value the input from experienced drivers like yourself. I could only hope to jump from I to SPC to GTB1 to Cup like some semi-pros I know Actually good thing you went to Cup; I wouldn't want to have to give you "love taps" to get you out of my way when I do return. JK guys JK. (It's a reference to a comment he made in another thread, and I hope Todd finds it humorous )

Peter, Your know me all to well. I really look forward to working with you again sometime in 2021 with whatever car I end up in.

Well I sent the owner my contact info so we'll see if it's even available, but taking out the tune and removing the throttle body and IPD plenum sounds like solid advice especially if there is a chance it might be easier on the engine, and would bring the performance closer to what I can expect if I convert it to H class.

Thanks again guys!

I haven't bought anything yet so if anyone has leads on a good G,F,H or I car for 40k-ish or less I'd love to hear from you.

 

Joe,
I read the Porsche #21 description and this caught my eye as anomaly.
"Recent Replacement engine from donor car with 65K miles (2020). Compression test shows 165-170psi with less then 1% leakdown loss."
I not familiar with these engines. Frank might know or what engine shop to ask. The 1% leak down loss for a 65K miles seem almost to good to be true.
Tom

 

Hey, Tom. it’s a Porsche!

 

Thanks Tom for catching that.

I was planning on having a shop local to him check it out for me so hopefully I will catch any problems ahead of time, but honestly for the price just the car and equipment minus an engine is still a pretty good deal. I did just hear from him, and it looks like the car is mine for $37k barring any surprises in the PPI. This seems like a huge bargain so let's keep our fingers crossed for a clean bill of health . . . because if so . . . I'm back in the game

Joe

 

Assuming things check out, you have room at that price for surprises, if you need it.

 

Good luck with the purchase. There are at least two Porsche shops in Rochester, so you have options to choose one that might not be the seller's shop.

 

So let me tell you a story about when I converted my Gen1 Cayman from "I class" to SPC. In I class it had a tune, big brakes, big wing and a few other bits to make it go faster. I loved the car and it was a great first car for club racing. Its in good hands now and was supposed to drive in SPC class this year (ironically when you read this story) but for Covid.

When SPC came along I thought to myself how cool would that be to race in a spec class where all the cars were going to be the same. For the sake of this story let me put aside that all the cars were NOT the same.

When I explained SPC to my wife she said "That's a mistake - you don't want to go slower."

I protested, "No, no, its going to be great. Trust me."

<narrator> But it wasn't great and Todd hated every single change that had been made to his car.

I think SPC is a great class but my issue was taking a car that performed at a certain level and then sabotaging it. It looked like the same exact car but could no longer do what I knew it could do. I hated it and with every race I hated it even more. Maybe there are people out there who have gone from a Cup car to a SPB and are happy with it, but I believe my fatal flaw to the plan was that I was in the same exact car and my brain couldn't let go of that fact. When I put all the fun bits back on the car, and strapped on some Pirelli shoes, I fell in love with the car all over again!

I had a well laid out plan, and I thought, the courage of my convictions. I wanted to love the class but I did not. What pains me even more about being wrong was that my wife warned me and added it to the list of 35+ years of things she says she was right about.

The point of this long and rambling screed? Simply this - if you drive a car on track you are competitive. If you race a car on track you are very competitive. Joe has stated he doesn't want to be a back marker and a back marker is what he will be in that car. SPC, G or H is the best place for that car and he will have a more rewarding experience.

Peter - you may be right but it all hinges on Joe divining what he really wants out of his club racing experience. And even if he thinks he knows, like I thought I knew, he may think differently once out on track. So to quote you "I stand by my post."

PS - When Grant steps out of my car, having beaten my best time, I normally advise him to have sexual relations with himself. That's the RL acceptable way of putting it.

As a newly minted Cup car driver I would LOVE to have another GTB1 car out on track which I can divebomb and otherwise harass. I may get in trouble for admitting this but Cup car drivers actually receive bonus points for divebombing lower class cars. Look it up - its true!

Bottom line - Peter has a bazillion years of experience but I think he is forgetting that you are a stone cold killer who wants to compete! Don't give me any of this "I don't care if I podium crap!" You just get out there and give people some love taps and bully your way to a podium. It's what you want!

 

Ahh, LV! You have truly drunk the Cup Car Kool-aid! Off the deep end, now!

I think Joe will have fun, whatever he finally decides.

THAT’S what’s most fun about the RL peanut gallery.

I have seen Grant’s broad grin when you say that to him, too.

 

Lots of stuff to mull over here. The only thing I would add is if you're planning to "detune" the car, make sure you look at the class size of the groups it would be running in at the races you're planning on attending someday. Spec Cayman is growing slowly, nothing like spec Boxster (yet?), and the letter classes seem to be shrinking every year. Something to consider, especially if you want good close intra class racing, especially if you won't be up front (at least right away )