How do pros get the most out of a car in a short amount of time?
09-30-2020, 05:29 PM
#32
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I will agree with that statement 100%. A lot of how a pro gets to the limit of the car quickly is because they have thousands of laps under their belt at most tracks around North America. They know the speed and physics involved in getting a car to go through a turn on these tracks and just about any car they drive should go through at a similar speed.
Quick example for you. Turn 1 at Road Atlanta. They apex speed in most tin tops is about 90 MPH. Spec Miata does it at about 93 MPH. GT3RS at 1000lbs heavier with a lot more rubber under it does it about 90 MPH. GT3 Cup can do it close to 100 MPH. So when I hopped in a new C8 Corvette on street tires for the first time a couple weeks ago I knew the speed going into Turn 1 should at least 85 MPH. I know for the first few laps to slow the car down to something under the limits going in, see how the car responds to the physics, and then incrementally bring the speed higher until it does something I don't like. Every lap and every turn I am thinking before I get there how the car responded the last time with the improvements I feel I should make to make the car faster.
Quick example for you. Turn 1 at Road Atlanta. They apex speed in most tin tops is about 90 MPH. Spec Miata does it at about 93 MPH. GT3RS at 1000lbs heavier with a lot more rubber under it does it about 90 MPH. GT3 Cup can do it close to 100 MPH. So when I hopped in a new C8 Corvette on street tires for the first time a couple weeks ago I knew the speed going into Turn 1 should at least 85 MPH. I know for the first few laps to slow the car down to something under the limits going in, see how the car responds to the physics, and then incrementally bring the speed higher until it does something I don't like. Every lap and every turn I am thinking before I get there how the car responded the last time with the improvements I feel I should make to make the car faster.
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09-30-2020, 08:38 PM
#33
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I’ll add to Seth’s excellent post, that every good pro I know knows EXACTLY what the car is going to do, BEFORE it does it, and is SO tuned-in to what the car is telling them that they “fix it” before it becomes an issue.
Some of this is due to a familiarity with car physics and how they can and do influence that with pro-active control inputs (pun not intended).
My personal observation is that pros bleed red and put their pants on the same way as ams do.
There is no magic to this, just a lot of hard work and study. I look at people like Mike Hedlund and others that can match their extraordinarily talented and gifted pro co-drivers and coaches, and I’ve seen plenty of really talented ams transcend what THEY thought was possible, once “in the zone.”
I have watched and measured the progress of drivers like Mike Skeen, Tom Long, Corey Lewis, Scott Heckert, Jonathan Goring, Seth and many others over the last five to twenty years, and have first hand knowledge of the objective performance levels of drivers such as Patrick Long, David Donohue, Randy Pobst, Marc Leib, Jorg Bergmeister and Jacques Villeneuve. I KNOW “what great looks like.” Leh is awesome to watch and very fast, but at that level, there are a fair number of drivers that are that fast, albeit not quite so entertaining! I mean that with no disrespect.
The bottom line is that their best execution of fundamental skills is a LOT BETTER. Period.
Their mental headroom and butt gyro allows them to perform thousands of corrections a lap, when you consider each steering, throttle and brake input one correction!
A couple years ago, Nick Longhi drove an SPB seconds under the then lap record.
There is NO car that cannot be driven quicker by someone else. Think about that.
Some of this is due to a familiarity with car physics and how they can and do influence that with pro-active control inputs (pun not intended).
My personal observation is that pros bleed red and put their pants on the same way as ams do.
There is no magic to this, just a lot of hard work and study. I look at people like Mike Hedlund and others that can match their extraordinarily talented and gifted pro co-drivers and coaches, and I’ve seen plenty of really talented ams transcend what THEY thought was possible, once “in the zone.”
I have watched and measured the progress of drivers like Mike Skeen, Tom Long, Corey Lewis, Scott Heckert, Jonathan Goring, Seth and many others over the last five to twenty years, and have first hand knowledge of the objective performance levels of drivers such as Patrick Long, David Donohue, Randy Pobst, Marc Leib, Jorg Bergmeister and Jacques Villeneuve. I KNOW “what great looks like.” Leh is awesome to watch and very fast, but at that level, there are a fair number of drivers that are that fast, albeit not quite so entertaining! I mean that with no disrespect.
The bottom line is that their best execution of fundamental skills is a LOT BETTER. Period.
Their mental headroom and butt gyro allows them to perform thousands of corrections a lap, when you consider each steering, throttle and brake input one correction!
A couple years ago, Nick Longhi drove an SPB seconds under the then lap record.
There is NO car that cannot be driven quicker by someone else. Think about that.
Last edited by ProCoach; 09-30-2020 at 08:40 PM.
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Seth Thomas (09-30-2020)
10-01-2020, 11:05 AM
#34
I first leave my driveway, on the road with nobody around, I get the car sliding around immediately, finding the traction limits with steering, then braking, then acceleration. On my own car, it tells me immediately what the friction limits are in this particular environment. With a new/unknown car or track, it tells me immediately how the car behaves and handles on that surface.
The one time I got the rear to step out involved a hard left and just mashing the throttle and the result was anything but remotely considered "under control".
My DE events are almost entirely at the big track at Mosport, so trying to slide around there will almost certainly put me in a wall.
This is where I think having a skid pad set up at a DE might be extremely valuable. Learning to slide around safely would probably be a huge milestone in driver development.
10-02-2020, 12:11 AM
#35
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LOL! Touche!!!
The problem is that with a newer Porsche, that's just not possible for an average driver on a dry surface without being dangerous. I actually tried the other day to slide my car around at low speeds on side streets and couldn't do it. I turned off all the nannies and got progressively more aggressive until I got to the point where I felt going further would be hazardous and then gave up. To try this again, I'm going to need to go out late at night to a big empty parking lot but there wasn't any available at the time.
The one time I got the rear to step out involved a hard left and just mashing the throttle and the result was anything but remotely considered "under control".
My DE events are almost entirely at the big track at Mosport, so trying to slide around there will almost certainly put me in a wall.
This is where I think having a skid pad set up at a DE might be extremely valuable. Learning to slide around safely would probably be a huge milestone in driver development.
The problem is that with a newer Porsche, that's just not possible for an average driver on a dry surface without being dangerous. I actually tried the other day to slide my car around at low speeds on side streets and couldn't do it. I turned off all the nannies and got progressively more aggressive until I got to the point where I felt going further would be hazardous and then gave up. To try this again, I'm going to need to go out late at night to a big empty parking lot but there wasn't any available at the time.
The one time I got the rear to step out involved a hard left and just mashing the throttle and the result was anything but remotely considered "under control".
My DE events are almost entirely at the big track at Mosport, so trying to slide around there will almost certainly put me in a wall.
This is where I think having a skid pad set up at a DE might be extremely valuable. Learning to slide around safely would probably be a huge milestone in driver development.
Using a 500hp $200k brand new GT3 to learn how to drive fast at a track like Mosport is a ridiculous proposition. If you want to push yourself and learn new things near the edge of the car's and your own capabilities, you're never going to be able to do that in the car you're currently driving. Sorry for the bad news but it's true.
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fnel1771 (10-02-2020)
10-02-2020, 09:45 AM
#36
10-02-2020, 11:22 AM
#37
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The FIRST car control exercise for everyone in the two-day high performance school and the three-day racing school at Skip Barber Racing School, for DECADES, was the skid pad.
First to put into concrete realization the effects of mild, then sudden weight transfer. Then, to learn C-P-R. Then, to get used to provoking the car and learning to do, AUTOMATICALLY, the right thing to get it back under control. Finally, to make it second nature.
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10-02-2020, 12:05 PM
#38
I have a great original idea: he should get a Miata. I can't believe people haven't thought of this idea before...
10-02-2020, 12:12 PM
#39
I just don't have any place to put another car right now.
10-02-2020, 01:31 PM
#40
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Some of the best lessons I have ever had was where I sat right seat to a pro driving my car and just watched what they were doing. Sometimes they would just give me a comment here and there but mainly it was just observing what they were doing and what the car was capable of.