RJFabCab

Howdy. I'm running RoW030 on Pilot Sport Cups and have noticed that my brakes are "less effective" now... ATE Super Blue DOT-4 was recently changed. My stock pads are starting to squeak a bit on the street.

Two questions regarding DEs:

1. Is it really that detrimental running stock pads and rotors with the Cups (i.e., in terms of premature and excessive wear)?

2. What's your favorite double duty brake pad choice for both street and track duty? I'm not so into swapping pads back and forth for each event.

Thanks to the GURUS!

RSAErick

I'm hardly a "guru", but my guess is that you'll have a hard time finding a perfect "double-duty" brake pad. The two street pads that I've tried on the track (Pagid Blue and Porterfield R4S) basically turned to dust after a day on the track. For that reason, I ONLY use track-rated pads.

And I will admit that I am often too lazy to change them out, so I end up driving with them on the street a fair amount. They're not perfect for street duty (they take a second to get heat into them when cold, and squeel like a pig) but they're not too bad either.

Best of luck.

Erick

Tom W

(1) I don't think it's bad to run stock pads with MPSCs. I ran 7 days of DE that way last year with my 993 and had no issues.

(2) My favorite double duty is Porsche stock. They are fine for a beginner on the track. I switched to stock as daily and Pagid orange for the track just before I bought the track car. It takes about an hour to swap pads and as I was swapping wheel/tires too, it was no big deal. (I ran SO2s or SO3s for daily use and MPSCs for DE.)

Jim Child

I really believe in swapping in a dedicated race pad for the track and swapping back to a street pad for street use. Street pads perform poorly on the track, and track pads perform poorly on the street. Why not have the best of both worlds? Pads are incrediby easy to change on a late model Porsche. Most of the time required to do the job is getting the wheels on and off which you should be doing anyway as part of your pre-track inspection.

Dave in Chicago

RJ - I run squishy stock pads in the off-season, KFP Magnum (Carbon-Kevlar) in the .03 compound as a dual-duty/summer-track pad. They squeal enough to wake all the neighbors when you come back home, but have proven to be pretty friendly under both street and track conditions.

Cool weather requires a slightly early application, but I've never had them spook me on the street. I HAVE been spooked driving home on brakes in dire need of a good bleeding, but this was not a pad issue. I know better now and take the 30 minutes to freshen the ATE Blue before that 2.5 hour drive home from Road America.

Jeff Curtis

Eric, (My C2 buddy in Wash.) - if I remember correctly, didn't you try a set of the Carbotech Panther Plus?? This is a GREAT "performance" street pad that can easily take you through a few "spirited" weekends at the track as well.

What were your impressions of the pads, considering someone that might be using them is not a crazy-assed threshold braker...like someone I know VERY well??

Myself, I have not tried a set as like you, I only use dedicated track pads...but it took awhile to "progress" up to the level of where I felt I required such "weaponry".

My point is, if you're a reasonable driver at the track, that is, not out there to drive on the edge and whatnot, and want a good double-duty pad, those are the types of pads to consider. I have suggested these pads to a few different drivers, that I know personally, one with a new E46 M3, another with an NSX and various 944/911 drivers...all seemed very satisfied with the "double-duty" performance of them as that's what they required.

A couple of them have progressed BEYOND the point of needing a "double-duty" pad and use full race pads now...but CHANGE them out once they get home!

***A race pad, in my book, should NEVER be used on the street for the simple reason that you're wasting LOTS of $$$$$$ wearing them out on the street, the dust, on a daily and weather-changing basis (your car gets brake dust all over it, it rains, you drive home in it and the next day it's nice and sunny...the dust has an acidic property). Like Eric, I am guilty of packing the car up, getting it home, changing back to street wheels and being too lazy to change the pads (because I'm due back at the track in a week or so) and driving around town with my squeeky-assed brake pads.

Hey, another tidbit of advice here...for those of you who are showing up at the track on your beloved street wheels, no matter what pad you use - clean the $&#^% out of your wheels the first chance you get, even it it means spraying some cheesy wheel cleaner (from Pep-Boys, Autozone, etc.) on them and hosing them down prior to your return trip home...this will do a lot for the preservations of your wheels as the acidic nature of different compounds tends to "etch" itself into the finish.

FWIW, I'm no GURU either - but I do stay at a Holiday Inn Express from time to time.

RJFabCab

Thanks for the input, Tom. This sounds like a route I may pursue.

RJFabCab

Jeff and Dave... thanks for the advice!

RSAErick

Jeff, your memory serves you well. I've been using the Carbotech Panther + pads as my "track" pads.... which means that they get plenty of use on the street.

I didn't include them in my previous statements because I really considered them a true "track" pad. But they suit my argument well enough, because I think that they work just fine on the street:
- They aren't overly expensive (like the Pagid Oranges!) ~ $110/axle???
- They last quite well (surprisingly well on the track)
- They "perform" adequately on the street

Sure, they squeal a bit, create a fair amount of dust, and you can feel them warm up (albeit quickly) with cold braking.

Ideally, I agree that it would be best to switch out pads between applications. But I'm happy enough with the street performance of the Panther + pads to leave them on for extended intervals.

OKAY, I'M LAZY!!!!

Robert Henriksen

Randy, don't know how far down your rotors have worn, but if you're having increasing problems with brake fade, a fresh (read: thicker) set of rotors & OEM pads, combined with ATE fluid, will take care of at least some of the problem. The extra insulation of the thicker pad, and the great heat sink capacity of the thicker rotor, will help -- at least early in their life.

I've been using a Ferodo compound as a dual-use pad, but the past year has seen NASTY brake squeal (I'm not using the factory anti-squeal spiders). I'll probably wind up moving back to OEM since I don't track the car much anymore. Knowing what I know now, if I was still hell-bent for leather, and swapping wheels anyway, I'd go to a dedicated track pad.

RJFabCab

Robert,

I've come to the rude realization that squeaking around town is a bit annoying.

So, here's what I'm thinking. Track pads for track days and stock pads for the street. I plan on swapping the pads out when I slap my street rubber back on. More frequent changing of the ATE can only help.

What do you think of keeping the stock rotors for use with "track" pads such as the Pagid oranges?

SS brake lines seem unnecessary for a non-race car (oops. Is this what my car's becoming???).

TGIF!

Jim Child

Stock rotors work fine with Pagid Oranges. I run stock rotors on my race car and they do just fine with Pagid Oranges or Pagid Blacks.

Matt Romanowski

My favorite track pads are the Porterfield R4. They are a great pad and perform really well. I've tried many others, but these hold up the best (to heat, longevity, least squeel, least dust).

Matt

DJF1

Last time Robert and I run my car at TWS Robert was bleeding the car brakes almost every session. We both experienced brake fade and mushy pedal which did not make much sense. I was under the impression that I was running Pagid blacks all around, but after talking to my mechanic he said that he had replaced the blacks with OEM stock pads because upon inspection the blacks were toast and there was not enough time to order new blacks before the track event.... So... case in point I guess is that once you elevate your performance and I know you are not a beginner, swapping track pads with street pads should become part of your weekend routine as you put more stress and heat on the brakes for the stock pads to be enough...
Surprisingly the Pagid blacks had very little squeel at least with my rotors and of course braking with those is really good. Downside is that they eat for breakfast the rotors so the Pagid Oranges should be your ticket as they are rotor friendly... They squeel like pigs though

Robert Henriksen

This is a YMMV kind of thing - different people will use/abuse brakes differently, even when running similar lap times, due to differing driving styles. When you get down below 2:00 laps at TWS in a 3,000# car, though, it's hard to imagine not giving the brakes a pretty reasonable workout.

Randy, there's not much commitment involved in picking up a set of track pads, as long as you stick with a compound that'll interact well with the deposits left by the OEM pads, and vice versa. Other people can advise you on that better than I. You can give the track pads a try (bed them in first!) one or two weekends, and if you're not sure they're worth the hassle, switch back to OEM for a weekend to compare. You could probably sell slightly-worn pads to any of the track hounds here pretty easily!

If nothing else, it'd be a good experience for you to get some seat-of-the-pants experience with a car modification. When I was modding my 993, I took a very gradual, incremental approach, and did at least one DE weekend between each change. Nothing like personal experience to complement all the discussion on the boards.