smokey

I wear a tapered neck roll, and I had believed it would help. However, after various threads here on the physics of how a basal skull fracture occurs, i.e. in tension, not compression, the roll doesn't seem to help: it works only in compression. I've done about 100 track days to date, and given the actuarial probabilities as I continue, I've ordered the HANS device. There are many other effective devices out there, but that was my choice, FWIW. Slightly more expensive than one set of tires, the way I look at it. I know I'll look silly in DE with a HANS, but I can live with that. I was convinced by the story of a mild off at Shannonville where the car became airborne and dug in its nose on landing. Result: cracked vertabrae.

Mark in Baltimore

I have a thick Deist collar, much thicker than the Sparco wedge ones, and I find it hard to believe that the collar does not provide some form of neck protection. Is it perfect? No, but it sure seems better than nothing. When I put my helmet on without the Deist, I can easily move my noggin in a wide range around my shoulders. With my Deist on, that range is greatly limited. As Jack said, the manufacturers are guarding against liability issues and are reluctant to make claims that their products will protect your neck or back.

<edit> Smokey, my post was not intended to challenge your words, even though it came right after yours.

Geo

Egads.

Neck collars do absolutely nothing for basil skull fracture. Your neck stretches with basil skull fracture and your helmet won't even be touching the neck collar when your neck breaks.

I've first hand experience with a neck collar and how it works to save your life. One saved mine. I had someone hit me so hard from behind in a kart than the entire kart and driver ended up on my head (325 lbs total). The neck collar prevented my neck from breaking (especially due to the angle of impact - right where a hangman puts the knot to break the neck). But, it was a compression impact, not tension as with a basil skull fracture.

As for all the H&N devices our there, IMHO the only two to consider are the Isaac and the HANS. Personally I have two misgivings about the Isaac.

1) The requirement to pull release pins to exit the car.

2) The angle between where it attaches to your shoulder harness and were it attaches to the helmet.

The thing I really like about the HANS is that the restraint works on a horizontal plane. I have great misgivings about devices that work at an angle. I rejected the G-Force restraint that my helmet is set up for due to this exact reason.

But again, I consider the Isaac the only reasonable alternative to the HANS.

All of the restraints that attach to your body via straps have a built-in flaw: they can move around as can your body in an accident. The HANS and Isaac at least are attached to the restraint that keeps your body under control and they won't slide around.

IMHO anything else is a waste of money. My future includes a HANS. Perhaps as soon as this summer. All I need now is a new job (I'm leaving my old one at the end of the month and the only reason I'm not ordering a HANS now).

Adam Richman

Ironically, I just read the other day where in a test w/ professional EMTs extracting a driver (I assume test dummy) from an inverted car, it took 90 seconds w/ the HANS and 60 seconds w/ the Isaac.

One of the things I was thinking about doing on my helmet this year was putting a decal on each side above the Isaac release pins that says "release" just to aleviate any confusion. On the other hand, I went to a seminar last year for F&S guys (think it was a form of accreditation for them), I am pretty sure they cut the belts when they have to take you out so in that case it would be of little concern.

Two things I'd note on strapping systems. A.) I believe they (straps) must be replaced on the same interval as your belts so there is an on-going expense (but check the rules you race under, this might be of no concern) and B.) you can definately be less or more protected based on how tight you pull the straps. This is of-course true for any strap, be it your harnesses or your window net or your Hutchens or HANS, etc ... the thing I have liked about the Isaac from the get-go was that the only way I could attach it incorrectly was to not attach it.

Computer simulations have shown the Isaac to work on lateral impacts, I do not know how well the other systems measure up in the same simulation. I know first hand however that after a massive side impact, I sure as hell was glad to be wearing my Isaac.

I apologize if I sound too slanted to the device I wear but after a very bad meeting with a concrete wall, my confidence and satisfaction with the Isaac device went through the roof (enough to call the product designer two days afterwards to thank him - wanted to wait long enough to make sure there wasn't a surprise neck pain or something).

Bottom line however (and I think all the manufacturers would tell you this) is that they all work to some degree or another. Some just work less well. But any system, fastened and adjusted properly will significantly lessen the load during an impact.

RedlineMan

Hey All;

It is really termed a Basal Skull Dislocation, since tendons are the only thing that holds the skull to the spine. Fracture is a misnomer that I too was guilty of uttering.

Don't discount the neck collar. My Neurosurgeon Racer friend says wear one by all means. They are not an H&N system, but they are nonetheless helpful at lower speeds. He wears a HANS.

The Isaac is the only system that virtually eliminates ALL head acceleration.

The Wright does seem to only work longitudinally. Too bad if this is true, as offset is FAR more dangerous.

No one should feel silly wearing safety gear anymore. Not with what we all now know.

There is an H&N system in my future, along with the head retention panels I am designing for my seat right now.

Geo

Actually, Basil Skull Fracture is a quite acceptable term.

From the CDC website:
http://www.cdc.gov/ncipc/pub-res/bibg1995.htm

McElhaney JH, Hopper RH, Nightingale RW, Myers BS. Mechanisms of basil skull fracture . Journal of Neurotrauma 1995;12(Number 4):669-678.

If it's good enough for the CDC it's good enough for me.

Go ahead and wear one, but they will do nothing to prevent basil skull fracture.

Oh man, after reading how basil skull fracture works in some detail, it's enough to scare you straight to the phone to order a H&N restraint. Nothing silly about it.

DAR951

Here's a link to the SAE site:

http://www.sae.org/servlets/productD...D=2002-01-3304

Twelve bucks to download...

mitch236

I will tell you that nobody will ridicule you for wearing any of the h&n restraint devices and if someone did, I wouldn't care anyway. I agree that the HANS does nothing in the event of side impact, that is why all track cars should have head bolsters. The point made about the HANS being more owner upkeep extensive, I disagree. First it is not very hard to determine the proper length of the straps and the adjustment is very easy. Second I would rather be able to easily see and replace defective straps then try to determine when the shock absorber needs replacement. The fewer moving parts, the more reliable the product. Simple is better. I am not bashing the Isaac it is an interesting product.

I can tell you this, after the safety thread I went all out for safety. I replaced my seat and fitted my helmet with HANS and now recommend all track drivers do the same. You don't look stupid in DE with all of these things.

The neck roll no matter how it is devised, will do little if nothing to protect you. They offer no support in extension and very little in compression. If you can easily deform it with your fingers imagine what it will do under the g-force generated in a crash.

BrandonH

Coincidentally, I had a Deist neck collar too. Seemed to me the wedge type collars were made for layback driving positions. I thought it interfered a lot with head movement, and was happy to toss it when I got my Isaac a year ago. One of the big benefits of Isaac and I assume HANS is that you get to throw away the collar.
B

GeoffD

Smokey,

How much did it cost you to purchase the HANS and bring it into Canada, all costs in?

Geoff D

smokey

GeoffD, I just ordered it, haven't recived it yet. I should have it for the first event at Mosport (BMWCC) at the end of April. Check it out with Ken Adams at HANS. I've asked them to send it USPS to avoid the UPS ripoff. If I had an earlier event at Watkins Glen, I'd have it shipped there, but I'm not there until August. At the prices of a few years ago, the HANS didn't make sense, but it's now $865 U.S., and with exchange, etc., that will be $1300 CDN or thereabouts. Slightly more than a set of 032's.

buckdr1

Adam, I have an Isaac, just got it in time for Feb's Sebring. Love it.
Saying it took extra time to removed the Isaac pins, assuming that you get the upgraded one w/ the push button release, I can't see a child even taking that long! Push the button, maybe wiggle, and pull the pin out. 15 seconds at most. Now I agree, not all corner workers /EMT's have seen them, I've taken to make it a point that word is passed on that an Isaac is at the track
Bill

James Achard

I just ordered an Isaac myself. The HANS device was very bulky and clumsy,IMO. I would like it for an open car but for a sedan the Issac made more sense to me. I have had the joy of having a fire and getting out of the car quickly is paramount. When I had the HANS on I felt very awkward.

Cheers, James

DGaunt

Noting that the original question was for a first time DE driver, what is the implication of a head restraint regarding the "equal restraint" rule? Just wondering...standards seem to vary re: belt, region to region, situation to situation.

Steve in FL

The HANS and Isaac devices are helmet & shoulder harness dependent so they can't be considered part of the "equal restraint" rule. The intent of that rule to ensure a student that has a racing seat and 6-pt harness provides the same for their instructor rather than just a stock seat and seatbelts. As for when it's applied, it's been my experience it is up to the instructor to decide if they're comfortable with the driver/car/equipment.