RE: Post your favorite turns!
03-03-2004, 12:08 AM
#31
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I know some of the stock class Club Racers that run hot at Road America. These are the guys that are running 2:38s in F (944S2s) and 2:35s (944 Turbo S) in E last year.
From what I recall, they are saying they take the carousel nearly if not flat out and flat through the kink. Thats with a shift to 5th in the brake markers for the kink (in the S2); Im thinking the Turbos will either short shift or carry 4th through the kink and shift to 5th at track out. Either way, they both may be approaching the 125 to 130 mph range through the turn.
When you get into the GT classes on slicks, Im sure the GT2R and GT1R cars could be dangerously close to 140mph.
From what I recall, they are saying they take the carousel nearly if not flat out and flat through the kink. Thats with a shift to 5th in the brake markers for the kink (in the S2); Im thinking the Turbos will either short shift or carry 4th through the kink and shift to 5th at track out. Either way, they both may be approaching the 125 to 130 mph range through the turn.
When you get into the GT classes on slicks, Im sure the GT2R and GT1R cars could be dangerously close to 140mph.
03-03-2004, 12:15 AM
#33
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Originally posted by Oddjob
I know some of the stock class Club Racers that run hot at Road America. These are the guys that are running 2:38s in F (944S2s) and 2:35s (944 Turbo S) in E last year.
From what I recall, they are saying they take the carousel nearly if not flat out and flat through the kink. Thats with a shift to 5th in the brake markers for the kink (in the S2); Im thinking the Turbos will either short shift or carry 4th through the kink and shift to 5th at track out. Either way, they both may be approaching the 125 to 130 mph range through the turn.
When you get into the GT classes on slicks, Im sure the GT2R and GT1R cars could be dangerously close to 140mph.
I know some of the stock class Club Racers that run hot at Road America. These are the guys that are running 2:38s in F (944S2s) and 2:35s (944 Turbo S) in E last year.
From what I recall, they are saying they take the carousel nearly if not flat out and flat through the kink. Thats with a shift to 5th in the brake markers for the kink (in the S2); Im thinking the Turbos will either short shift or carry 4th through the kink and shift to 5th at track out. Either way, they both may be approaching the 125 to 130 mph range through the turn.
When you get into the GT classes on slicks, Im sure the GT2R and GT1R cars could be dangerously close to 140mph.
03-03-2004, 01:26 AM
#34
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The Kink earned my respect last Labor Day. Still like it though. 
I also love Madness (Mid Ohio), just about all of Road America (scrubbing off 100 mph of speed into 5 is fun), and the turn 9-10 combo at Putnam.
My least favorite: Oak Tree (and the turn leading into it) at VIR, at least in a Skippy car because I had a lot of trouble coordinating my braking and downshifts there. I need to get back and figure it out.
I also love Madness (Mid Ohio), just about all of Road America (scrubbing off 100 mph of speed into 5 is fun), and the turn 9-10 combo at Putnam.
My least favorite: Oak Tree (and the turn leading into it) at VIR, at least in a Skippy car because I had a lot of trouble coordinating my braking and downshifts there. I need to get back and figure it out.
03-03-2004, 01:52 AM
#35
Rennlist Member
Most of the stock class cars dont have the power to even approach 140mph into the kink. Maybe the 996TTs with a good exit through the carousel can reach that, but not too many others. So its irrelevant (for most cars) to worry about taking the turn at that speed.
Mike,
Check the PCA website Club Race results for Road America in 2003. Green Group Qualifying 2:38.8 for the F class S2, and Group 1 Enduro 2:35.8 for the E Class 944 Turbo S. I recall both those guys winning their classes the previous year also, but probably off a second or so, it was hotter in 2002.
944turboS (I assume that is also the car you drive?),
Youre running 2:34s on stock suspension? Thats quite impressive. I agree that on stock M030 suspension, you wont be going over 110-115 through the kink, and thats probably a little on edge. But you must be making the time up somewhere else; Im assuming youre running at least 350bhp to get that kind of lap time? 2:34 is nearly competitive with the 944 Turbo Cup and 964 Cup Cars.
Mike,
Check the PCA website Club Race results for Road America in 2003. Green Group Qualifying 2:38.8 for the F class S2, and Group 1 Enduro 2:35.8 for the E Class 944 Turbo S. I recall both those guys winning their classes the previous year also, but probably off a second or so, it was hotter in 2002.
944turboS (I assume that is also the car you drive?),
Youre running 2:34s on stock suspension? Thats quite impressive. I agree that on stock M030 suspension, you wont be going over 110-115 through the kink, and thats probably a little on edge. But you must be making the time up somewhere else; Im assuming youre running at least 350bhp to get that kind of lap time? 2:34 is nearly competitive with the 944 Turbo Cup and 964 Cup Cars.
03-03-2004, 02:23 AM
#36
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Originally posted by Oddjob
Most of the stock class cars dont have the power to even approach 140mph into the kink. Maybe the 996TTs with a good exit through the carousel can reach that, but not too many others. So its irrelevant (for most cars) to worry about taking the turn at that speed.
Mike,
Check the PCA website Club Race results for Road America in 2003. Green Group Qualifying 2:38.8 for the F class S2, and Group 1 Enduro 2:35.8 for the E Class 944 Turbo S. I recall both those guys winning their classes the previous year also, but probably off a second or so, it was hotter in 2002.
944turboS (I assume that is also the car you drive?),
Youre running 2:34s on stock suspension? Thats quite impressive. I agree that on stock M030 suspension, you wont be going over 110-115 through the kink, and thats probably a little on edge. But you must be making the time up somewhere else; Im assuming youre running at least 350bhp to get that kind of lap time? 2:34 is nearly competitive with the 944 Turbo Cup and 964 Cup Cars.
Most of the stock class cars dont have the power to even approach 140mph into the kink. Maybe the 996TTs with a good exit through the carousel can reach that, but not too many others. So its irrelevant (for most cars) to worry about taking the turn at that speed.
Mike,
Check the PCA website Club Race results for Road America in 2003. Green Group Qualifying 2:38.8 for the F class S2, and Group 1 Enduro 2:35.8 for the E Class 944 Turbo S. I recall both those guys winning their classes the previous year also, but probably off a second or so, it was hotter in 2002.
944turboS (I assume that is also the car you drive?),
Youre running 2:34s on stock suspension? Thats quite impressive. I agree that on stock M030 suspension, you wont be going over 110-115 through the kink, and thats probably a little on edge. But you must be making the time up somewhere else; Im assuming youre running at least 350bhp to get that kind of lap time? 2:34 is nearly competitive with the 944 Turbo Cup and 964 Cup Cars.
03-03-2004, 04:31 AM
#37
Race Car
VIR: Uphill Esses and FLYING into South Bend, trying to decide whether you need a good go at the brake pedal before negotiating or just a good stab.
One mis-judgement there and you're going for the ride of your life.
At the Glenn?? It would have to be the Uphill Esses onto the backstraight, and then figuring how much braking you have to do before turning into the Bus Stop - that's fun!
Summit Point, hands down the Chute, picking your line through T5 and into the Carousel, hanging the back end out...hoping that you'll be looking at the water tower when you come out - or else!
Mid-America...is it T5 that's a bit off camber, turning right, decreasing radius onto a nice short straight and then deciding if you are carrying too much speed to go through the fast left-hander at full throttle...or do you have to give a subtle hesitation OFF and back on the gas again??
Road America...yup, you guessed it. DA KINK!
CMP - the Kink on the backstraight, still separates the men from the boys...if you F'up, you're gonna mow down about 10 saplings.
Roebling...fun turn, T3, on it hard to the left...how much fun can you have?? ...hopefully not enough that you wind up in the woods at T4.
Beaver Run, hmmmmm, that's a toughie, how big are your B___ going up the hill and then down to the right...apex in the middle of the track or the left?? ...then SCREAMING down to the high speed left hander and then the FULL OUT right hander into the "turn impossible"...you screw that one up only to find out, guess what - you gotta go UPHILL now!
One mis-judgement there and you're going for the ride of your life.
At the Glenn?? It would have to be the Uphill Esses onto the backstraight, and then figuring how much braking you have to do before turning into the Bus Stop - that's fun!
Summit Point, hands down the Chute, picking your line through T5 and into the Carousel, hanging the back end out...hoping that you'll be looking at the water tower when you come out - or else!
Mid-America...is it T5 that's a bit off camber, turning right, decreasing radius onto a nice short straight and then deciding if you are carrying too much speed to go through the fast left-hander at full throttle...or do you have to give a subtle hesitation OFF and back on the gas again??
Road America...yup, you guessed it. DA KINK!
CMP - the Kink on the backstraight, still separates the men from the boys...if you F'up, you're gonna mow down about 10 saplings.
Roebling...fun turn, T3, on it hard to the left...how much fun can you have?? ...hopefully not enough that you wind up in the woods at T4.
Beaver Run, hmmmmm, that's a toughie, how big are your B___ going up the hill and then down to the right...apex in the middle of the track or the left?? ...then SCREAMING down to the high speed left hander and then the FULL OUT right hander into the "turn impossible"...you screw that one up only to find out, guess what - you gotta go UPHILL now!
Last edited by Jeff Curtis; 03-04-2004 at 12:35 AM.
03-03-2004, 10:30 AM
#38
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I'd have to nominate the following:
Turn 12 at Road Atlanta. The vertical drop is unbelievable and a blast - I took my Dad (63) over it several times last year and the only thing he kept saying was "FASTER"!!.
The Corkskrew @ Laguna - no explanation needed (going to Adv Skippy at the end of this month...can't wait)
Turn 6 at Laguna - for some reason I love the feeling of how the dip at the apex pulls you inside...at least I think it was close to the apex! I spun there about 4 times in a morning session so think I was at least close. (HWFM member).
Madness @ Mid-Ohio (45 days till my next event at Mid-Ohio but who's counting??)
Turns 9-10 at Putnam (52 days till next event)
Turn 12 at Road Atlanta. The vertical drop is unbelievable and a blast - I took my Dad (63) over it several times last year and the only thing he kept saying was "FASTER"!!.
The Corkskrew @ Laguna - no explanation needed (going to Adv Skippy at the end of this month...can't wait)
Turn 6 at Laguna - for some reason I love the feeling of how the dip at the apex pulls you inside...at least I think it was close to the apex! I spun there about 4 times in a morning session so think I was at least close. (HWFM member).
Madness @ Mid-Ohio (45 days till my next event at Mid-Ohio but who's counting??)
Turns 9-10 at Putnam (52 days till next event)
03-03-2004, 10:58 AM
#39
Race Car
Originally posted by Z-man
FWIW, here's my track notes from the Glen last summer:
Pick up yellow line on right side of track before turn 2 asap. Hug this line w/ right tires up through apex. You will need to turn in more as you approach the apex. Stay on right, hugging the yellow line as you approach turn 3. Then, pick up yellow line on left side of the track, again well before the apex cone. Follow line with left tires all the way up to the apex. At apex, GET STRAIGHT. That should aim you towards turn 4. No need to 'hug the line' at turn 4, but definately hit the apex and track out points.
FWIW, here's my track notes from the Glen last summer:
Pick up yellow line on right side of track before turn 2 asap. Hug this line w/ right tires up through apex. You will need to turn in more as you approach the apex. Stay on right, hugging the yellow line as you approach turn 3. Then, pick up yellow line on left side of the track, again well before the apex cone. Follow line with left tires all the way up to the apex. At apex, GET STRAIGHT. That should aim you towards turn 4. No need to 'hug the line' at turn 4, but definately hit the apex and track out points.
Those are the same notes I have for the Glen. I really found that was faster than whatever line I was trying to take before. Getting that line right was MUCH faster. I got past a Z06 on the straight coming out of the esses, very exciting!
I agree, it can feel as though the car is floating!
WGI is the only track I've driven, what does everyone recommend within a days drive here in the Northeast?
03-03-2004, 11:12 AM
#40
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My favorites:
Sebring turn 17: I won't go into detail about my line but suffice to say, it pays to be a local. The entrance and exit are about as exciting as it gets!
Sebring turn 14: it's the fast left hand sweeper and can be taken flat out. The real pucker factor comes at the end when you must have the car settled for turn 15
Homestead turn one: again can be taken flat out and car must be settled in a hurry because you have to wait for the suspension to recover from the bumpy transition from banked straight to the infield.
(I've only driven three tracks and Moroso doesn't have any favorites for me)
Sebring turn 17: I won't go into detail about my line but suffice to say, it pays to be a local. The entrance and exit are about as exciting as it gets!
Sebring turn 14: it's the fast left hand sweeper and can be taken flat out. The real pucker factor comes at the end when you must have the car settled for turn 15
Homestead turn one: again can be taken flat out and car must be settled in a hurry because you have to wait for the suspension to recover from the bumpy transition from banked straight to the infield.
(I've only driven three tracks and Moroso doesn't have any favorites for me)
03-03-2004, 11:20 AM
#41
Rennlist Member
OK how about scary nasty Turns? After all, the ones everyone likes are the ones where everyone else is fast...
Turn 2 at Mosport: Downhill, off camber, second apex well before the bottom of the hill. Your fate is sealed at turn-in: not much correction available once you've committed to a speed and line. Now all you front runners, imagine doing a start where everyone else mid pack is still bunched up through there!
Turn 13 at Mid OH: You arrive at full tilt after charging through thunder alley, turn in way out on the last rumble strip, all feels fine... then the track goes off camber mid way through. Your grip dissolves, the car feels all floaty and weird, just as you figure all is lost and wonder do I go off straight or risk locking everything up for the spin, the track turns camber positive, grip returns, and you wonder what all the fuss was about. Three camber changes during the second-fastest turn on the track.
Lime Rock, the downhill: The turn that seperates the men from the boys at LRP (I'm still in puberty) The guys in my group disappearing into the distance aren't braking here. Far and away the most important turn on the track since it dictates speed on the straight. I don't know how it's done. My brain says, "you'll get all kinds of grip as the nose hits the bottom of the hill at turn in." My heart says: "gee there isn't much grass between track out and the wall..."
Brandon
Turn 2 at Mosport: Downhill, off camber, second apex well before the bottom of the hill. Your fate is sealed at turn-in: not much correction available once you've committed to a speed and line. Now all you front runners, imagine doing a start where everyone else mid pack is still bunched up through there!
Turn 13 at Mid OH: You arrive at full tilt after charging through thunder alley, turn in way out on the last rumble strip, all feels fine... then the track goes off camber mid way through. Your grip dissolves, the car feels all floaty and weird, just as you figure all is lost and wonder do I go off straight or risk locking everything up for the spin, the track turns camber positive, grip returns, and you wonder what all the fuss was about. Three camber changes during the second-fastest turn on the track.
Lime Rock, the downhill: The turn that seperates the men from the boys at LRP (I'm still in puberty) The guys in my group disappearing into the distance aren't braking here. Far and away the most important turn on the track since it dictates speed on the straight. I don't know how it's done. My brain says, "you'll get all kinds of grip as the nose hits the bottom of the hill at turn in." My heart says: "gee there isn't much grass between track out and the wall..."
Brandon
03-03-2004, 11:34 AM
#42
Burning Brakes
Great thread. It seems I have much to look forward too, only having done one weekend at The Glen in my career. I would agree with everything that was said about the Esses there. At first I thought my instructor was crazy when he said to go WOT and attempt Turn 2. Later in the weekend, that was all I lived for!
03-03-2004, 12:57 PM
#44
Rennlist Member
My favorite turns are those when I can gain on other cars - especially faster cars. As I get more experienced, I'm trying to make all the turns fit into this category!
03-03-2004, 01:40 PM
#45
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Hey;
- M758 - The Great Northeast rules the track world. More tracks, more dates, more programs. The Southeast and Midwest are gaining in terms of programs and dates, but not tracks... yet. It's just been going on here forever! The PCA list alone has over 200 events from April to November!
- Jack - Indeed.. that would be EVERY turn, and quite the point! Fun when the fog of newbiness lifts and the lights come on... eh?
- Sterm - See my track schedule in a previous response. Consider those your must-do list for the future. If you want you can join in with the CNY Track Junkie Touring Group going to these events this summer. We would be glad to have you along and would welcome you into our group with open throttles!
- M758 - The Great Northeast rules the track world. More tracks, more dates, more programs. The Southeast and Midwest are gaining in terms of programs and dates, but not tracks... yet. It's just been going on here forever! The PCA list alone has over 200 events from April to November!
- Jack - Indeed.. that would be EVERY turn, and quite the point! Fun when the fog of newbiness lifts and the lights come on... eh?
- Sterm - See my track schedule in a previous response. Consider those your must-do list for the future. If you want you can join in with the CNY Track Junkie Touring Group going to these events this summer. We would be glad to have you along and would welcome you into our group with open throttles!
