RE: Post your favorite turns!
03-02-2004, 06:42 PM
#16
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Mike, these guys are pretty darn accurate. What lat g's can you pull? If you are running Hoosiers, you should be above 1.25 lat g's. R compound should be close. Street, no way, but even then, 130 at 1.0 g’s in streets? Wow. I really do believe their numbers and have seen it done over and over with different cars on different tracks. They are accurate.
03-02-2004, 07:00 PM
#17
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Theory looks a lot different from the driver's seat. 
I run Hoosiers, and even fully puckered, I can't run 130 let alone 146 through the Kink.
There's also the problem of having a car that can accelerate from the low theoretical speed in 8 up to the theoretical entry speed of 9. Possibly in an Indy car or IMSA car, but not in F. Not even in a cheater car in F.
But it is an interesting chart to study.
When you (or anyone else reading this) do get to run Road America flat out, you might want to work your way up to those speeds.
Now back to our regularly scheduled topic...
I run Hoosiers, and even fully puckered, I can't run 130 let alone 146 through the Kink.
There's also the problem of having a car that can accelerate from the low theoretical speed in 8 up to the theoretical entry speed of 9. Possibly in an Indy car or IMSA car, but not in F. Not even in a cheater car in F.
But it is an interesting chart to study.
When you (or anyone else reading this) do get to run Road America flat out, you might want to work your way up to those speeds.
Now back to our regularly scheduled topic...
03-02-2004, 07:07 PM
#18
Three Wheelin'
Color, theory speed is great but try that kind of speed in your street car, throw in some marbles hanging out on the outside of the turn and look out!
By no means am I an expert or even a good driver. When club racing, I am about 75mph going into the carsoul, squeezing on power to about 88mph at apex. This is in a full monoball set up 993 without race shocks and springs (PSS9's) and Hoosiers. Theory flies out the window when your *** is just begging to be kissed goodbye!!!
By no means am I an expert or even a good driver. When club racing, I am about 75mph going into the carsoul, squeezing on power to about 88mph at apex. This is in a full monoball set up 993 without race shocks and springs (PSS9's) and Hoosiers. Theory flies out the window when your *** is just begging to be kissed goodbye!!!
03-02-2004, 09:13 PM
#19
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Originally posted by Mike in Chi
You couldn't in my car even if Fishman was driving.
You couldn't in my car even if Fishman was driving.
I don't think I want to be in any car that is doing that speed thru the kink.
I guess I should re-state my opinion on the kink. It is my favorite because it hasn't claimed me as a victim, like it has so many of my friends and co-racers.
03-02-2004, 09:54 PM
#20
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Let's say Favorite Track Segments -
- The Esses at the Glen, without a doubt. Flat to the floor from Turn 1 for nearly 3/4 of a mile! Super intimidating with 4-high Armco surrounding you in that unique and radiant blue tone. Perhaps the most photographed and recognizable track segment in motorsports next to the Corkscrew.
- Turns 8,9 &10 at Mosport. Screaming in from the back straight into the super fast Turn 8 right sweeper. Keep your courage up and your foot to the floor. The brake/shift zone is still in the turn and is REALLY difficult to get right at the last possible second. DON'T GET YOUR FEET TANGLED! 9 is an immediate 90 degree left and 10 is another immediate 90 degree right onto the front straight. It's a real workout!!
- Turns 4, 5A, and 5B at Mosport. Screaming into the off camber valley of 4, then jamb a heel/toe at the bottom, hit the hill and fly over the crest of 5A, gun the throttle for a split second after the car lands, then jamb another heel/toe to second, crank the wheel right and floor the gas to get out of 5B and onto the back straight. VIOLENT!!!
- Uphill Esses, South Bend, & Oak Tree at VIR. World Cup Downhill Skiing... except uphill! Fast, open, flowing, gut-check, then violent at the hairpin. Wahooo!
- Madness at Mid Ohio. The name says it all!!!
- The Esses at the Glen, without a doubt. Flat to the floor from Turn 1 for nearly 3/4 of a mile! Super intimidating with 4-high Armco surrounding you in that unique and radiant blue tone. Perhaps the most photographed and recognizable track segment in motorsports next to the Corkscrew.
- Turns 8,9 &10 at Mosport. Screaming in from the back straight into the super fast Turn 8 right sweeper. Keep your courage up and your foot to the floor. The brake/shift zone is still in the turn and is REALLY difficult to get right at the last possible second. DON'T GET YOUR FEET TANGLED! 9 is an immediate 90 degree left and 10 is another immediate 90 degree right onto the front straight. It's a real workout!!
- Turns 4, 5A, and 5B at Mosport. Screaming into the off camber valley of 4, then jamb a heel/toe at the bottom, hit the hill and fly over the crest of 5A, gun the throttle for a split second after the car lands, then jamb another heel/toe to second, crank the wheel right and floor the gas to get out of 5B and onto the back straight. VIOLENT!!!
- Uphill Esses, South Bend, & Oak Tree at VIR. World Cup Downhill Skiing... except uphill! Fast, open, flowing, gut-check, then violent at the hairpin. Wahooo!
- Madness at Mid Ohio. The name says it all!!!
03-02-2004, 10:05 PM
#21
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By the way, Z;
Brian is right about the Esses. Getting to the curb in 2 early scrubs speed. Go WAY wide entering 2, wander in VERY gradually, and when you meet the base of the hill, meet the apex. When the guard rail on your right ends (safety vehicle cutout), move IMMEDIATELY to the left curb for 3 and hold it.
A VERY esoteric trick for ultra speed onto the back straight is to only hold the 3 curb until you can see past the bridge. Then release the wheel and let the car cross as though you think you're going to hit the Armco at the horizon on the right going over the bridge. You won't!
You want NO lateral g-force at all going over the bridge. If the car feels like it is floating as you cross the bridge, you did it right. EXCEEDINGLY subtle, but amazingly effective. I learned this from a buddy in the same car. Could see him gain 3-4 car lengths on me in the space of this 100 feet.
Pilot Emeritus!!
Brian is right about the Esses. Getting to the curb in 2 early scrubs speed. Go WAY wide entering 2, wander in VERY gradually, and when you meet the base of the hill, meet the apex. When the guard rail on your right ends (safety vehicle cutout), move IMMEDIATELY to the left curb for 3 and hold it.
A VERY esoteric trick for ultra speed onto the back straight is to only hold the 3 curb until you can see past the bridge. Then release the wheel and let the car cross as though you think you're going to hit the Armco at the horizon on the right going over the bridge. You won't!
You want NO lateral g-force at all going over the bridge. If the car feels like it is floating as you cross the bridge, you did it right. EXCEEDINGLY subtle, but amazingly effective. I learned this from a buddy in the same car. Could see him gain 3-4 car lengths on me in the space of this 100 feet.
Pilot Emeritus!!
03-02-2004, 10:29 PM
#22
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My favorites:
Turn 1 at Road Atlanta
Turn 5 at Road Atlanta
South Bend at VIR
Turn 1 at Lowes MS
Turn 5 at Roebling Road
Turn 8 at Kershaw
all of which I feel I always left something on the table and probably always will but not for a lack of effort.
Turn 1 at Road Atlanta
Turn 5 at Road Atlanta
South Bend at VIR
Turn 1 at Lowes MS
Turn 5 at Roebling Road
Turn 8 at Kershaw
all of which I feel I always left something on the table and probably always will but not for a lack of effort.
03-02-2004, 10:36 PM
#23
Originally posted by RedlineMan
- Uphill Esses, South Bend, & Oak Tree at VIR. World Cup Downhill Skiing... except uphill! Fast, open, flowing, gut-check, then violent at the hairpin. Wahooo!
[/b]
- Uphill Esses, South Bend, & Oak Tree at VIR. World Cup Downhill Skiing... except uphill! Fast, open, flowing, gut-check, then violent at the hairpin. Wahooo!
[/b]
- Madness at Mid Ohio. The name says it all!!! [/B]
[/B]
03-02-2004, 10:53 PM
#24
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Greg
I think the 2nd most intimidating/sobering/thought-provoking sight at any track I've been to is the rainbow of color on the inside wall in the Kink. Thousands, if not tens of thousands to apply each color swatch.
The most intimidating/sobering/thought-provoking sight is the catch fencing patches eight feet off the ground just past track out.
Brian, Adam, John
Sounds like I gotta get to VIR
I'm not saying a word (jinx) about Road Atlanta (jinx) and the hill (jinx) -- I hope to be there next month.
I think the 2nd most intimidating/sobering/thought-provoking sight at any track I've been to is the rainbow of color on the inside wall in the Kink. Thousands, if not tens of thousands to apply each color swatch.
The most intimidating/sobering/thought-provoking sight is the catch fencing patches eight feet off the ground just past track out.
Brian, Adam, John
Sounds like I gotta get to VIR
I'm not saying a word (jinx) about Road Atlanta (jinx) and the hill (jinx) -- I hope to be there next month.
03-02-2004, 11:00 PM
#25
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Originally posted by Mike in Chi
146 through the kink?
You can't in my car.
146 through the kink?
You can't in my car.
03-02-2004, 11:07 PM
#26
Race Director
Thread Starter
Originally posted by RedlineMan
By the way, Z;
Brian is right about the Esses. Getting to the curb in 2 early scrubs speed. Go WAY wide entering 2, wander in VERY gradually, and when you meet the base of the hill, meet the apex. When the guard rail on your right ends (safety vehicle cutout), move IMMEDIATELY to the left curb for 3 and hold it.
A VERY esoteric trick for ultra speed onto the back straight is to only hold the 3 curb until you can see past the bridge. Then release the wheel and let the car cross as though you think you're going to hit the Armco at the horizon on the right going over the bridge. You won't!
You want NO lateral g-force at all going over the bridge. If the car feels like it is floating as you cross the bridge, you did it right. EXCEEDINGLY subtle, but amazingly effective. I learned this from a buddy in the same car. Could see him gain 3-4 car lengths on me in the space of this 100 feet.
Pilot Emeritus!!
By the way, Z;
Brian is right about the Esses. Getting to the curb in 2 early scrubs speed. Go WAY wide entering 2, wander in VERY gradually, and when you meet the base of the hill, meet the apex. When the guard rail on your right ends (safety vehicle cutout), move IMMEDIATELY to the left curb for 3 and hold it.
A VERY esoteric trick for ultra speed onto the back straight is to only hold the 3 curb until you can see past the bridge. Then release the wheel and let the car cross as though you think you're going to hit the Armco at the horizon on the right going over the bridge. You won't!
You want NO lateral g-force at all going over the bridge. If the car feels like it is floating as you cross the bridge, you did it right. EXCEEDINGLY subtle, but amazingly effective. I learned this from a buddy in the same car. Could see him gain 3-4 car lengths on me in the space of this 100 feet.
Pilot Emeritus!!
FWIW, here's my track notes from the Glen last summer:
Pick up yellow line on right side of track before turn 2 asap. Hug this line w/ right tires up through apex. You will need to turn in more as you approach the apex. Stay on right, hugging the yellow line as you approach turn 3. Then, pick up yellow line on left side of the track, again well before the apex cone. Follow line with left tires all the way up to the apex. At apex, GET STRAIGHT. That should aim you towards turn 4. No need to 'hug the line' at turn 4, but definately hit the apex and track out points.
Pick up yellow line on right side of track before turn 2 asap. Hug this line w/ right tires up through apex. You will need to turn in more as you approach the apex. Stay on right, hugging the yellow line as you approach turn 3. Then, pick up yellow line on left side of the track, again well before the apex cone. Follow line with left tires all the way up to the apex. At apex, GET STRAIGHT. That should aim you towards turn 4. No need to 'hug the line' at turn 4, but definately hit the apex and track out points.
-Z.
03-02-2004, 11:14 PM
#27
Three Wheelin'
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Guys, you are great. Let me please clarify ... I AM NOT RECOMMENDING ANYONE TRY THOSE SPEEDS! They are strictly theoretical and accurate ... how fast can the turns be taken in a well set up car that can pull those g's. The model does not account for vertical loading or track problems (bumps, fluids ...). So, the numbers shown are theoretical maximums. Now, could Schumi do the kink near 130 in my Countach and through the Carousel at 107 maybe, but could I? 
Would I even try? Hell (I want to live) No!
Now, I can come close to some of their other speeds on other turns so, I really think they are close. I will ask them about dead nuts accuracy or other mitigating factors (like suspension, set-up, ...)
I wish I could talk lines at other courses like you guys but no gots the experience! Hell, I don't even know Gingerman well.
Would I even try? Hell (I want to live) No!
Now, I can come close to some of their other speeds on other turns so, I really think they are close. I will ask them about dead nuts accuracy or other mitigating factors (like suspension, set-up, ...)
I wish I could talk lines at other courses like you guys but no gots the experience! Hell, I don't even know Gingerman well.
03-02-2004, 11:18 PM
#28
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I think you need to clarify what you think is a "well set up car." As far as I know it I havent seen anyone with my own two eyes drive 140+mph through the kink in even really well set up cars.....Theoretical or not, like you stated a lot more factors go into those speeds then those calculations show and no matter what anyone says 140mph throught he kink in a "well setup" street car is crazy!
03-02-2004, 11:23 PM
#29
Three Wheelin'
My top three favorite turns or segments are:
Mid Ohio: Madness
Watkins Glen: Esses
Nurburgring Nordschliefe: Wippermann-Escbach-Brunnchen
I like elevation change, either up or down
Mid Ohio: Madness
Watkins Glen: Esses
Nurburgring Nordschliefe: Wippermann-Escbach-Brunnchen
I like elevation change, either up or down
03-02-2004, 11:46 PM
#30
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Here goes:
VIR - Been said but: Esses, Southbend and Hog Pen. Feeding more and more power through the esses is thrilling and culminates in throwing the car into Southbend. Hog Pen keeps me on the edge of my seat.
CMP - Carousel (5,6,7) and turns 11 and 12. I haven't found the limit in the carousel. 11 and 12 have that feeling of wrapping the car around the turn.
Roebling - Turns 4 through 7. Mostly because I've been known to try to go directly from 4 to 7 without 5 and 6. My attempts have failed thanks to the kitty litter and a short stint driving backwards out of 4. Of course there's that tire barrier in the way too. I haven't gotten up close and personal with that.
Lowes - turn 5 (if you use the 3a,b and 4a,b labels) or the left hander before entering the oval at Nascar 1. You know you are getting faster when the walls get closer and you feel like you're driving through a toll booth.
VIR - Been said but: Esses, Southbend and Hog Pen. Feeding more and more power through the esses is thrilling and culminates in throwing the car into Southbend. Hog Pen keeps me on the edge of my seat.
CMP - Carousel (5,6,7) and turns 11 and 12. I haven't found the limit in the carousel. 11 and 12 have that feeling of wrapping the car around the turn.
Roebling - Turns 4 through 7. Mostly because I've been known to try to go directly from 4 to 7 without 5 and 6. My attempts have failed thanks to the kitty litter and a short stint driving backwards out of 4. Of course there's that tire barrier in the way too. I haven't gotten up close and personal with that.
Lowes - turn 5 (if you use the 3a,b and 4a,b labels) or the left hander before entering the oval at Nascar 1. You know you are getting faster when the walls get closer and you feel like you're driving through a toll booth.