ProCoach

Lap times are the sum total of dozens of skill executions in the car. They measure completed work and effort. They're a result, not a task.

Predictive timing is what a majority of the top-level drivers use to determine what works and what doesn't, while they're doing it.

Usually expressed in a bar graph or PLUS/MINUS decimal number, -.03 indicates three-tenths better than the reference to that point, +1.0 indicates one second slower than the reference.

Most drivers using this effectively pick a corner or corner complex and work on that, figuring the difference between before and after that section to KNOW that something works, or not. Using a prime and option plan/gear/line, they do three laps the best they can in that area, then three laps using the optional approach and THEY CAN KNOW if a plan/gear/line is better, or not.

There has to be sufficient headroom to first, drive the car, and second, take in other information. Works for some, not for others.

Definitely agree that novices and those still grappling with fundamentals are not going to benefit from the presence of "a lap timer," but these devices are so much more than that for the people that use them correctly.

mrRed

My first track day ever I was in my wife's GTI with the weirdo first gen DSG. No idea what I was doing, drinking from a firehose, not sure which was the shiney side of the car by the 4th lap of the day type of confused.
Some dude with a shaved head with blood pressure soo high he was purple and muscles not found in nature peeking out from his comically tight black t-shirt and silver necklaces (plural intended) was driving a black on black on black on black on black corvette with straight pipes and chrome wheels.
On everyone's *** every straight away with no room to spare, wouldn't wait for a point to take a pass, verbally argumentative with the CI and students in class, super aggressive and disrespectful person...

Maybe he had a lap timer?

StoogeMoe

Nah. Probably just trying to impress his stripper girlfriend.

dgrobs

I'll take "What is Roid Rage" for $800 please Alex....

Matt Romanowski

You say this like a stripper girlfriend is bad. I'm confused?

yesyoucan

Lap timer for analysis is a good thing. The more sophisticated ones that can give sector times, best lap, best rolling lap, etc., can keep people from gong too crazy on track when they are just chasing a lap time from point a and back to point a.

Real issue which is causing incidents and aggressive driving is the proliferation of track insurance. It's not being used to mitigate risk but to get riskier. It's not expensive for, shall we say the "cheaper" cars.

Coochas

Generally a ride that is best rented and not purchased.

dgrobs

Hehe..

Matt Romanowski

Agreed. He said GF not wife!

Veloce Raptor

Yeah, WTAF?

Manifold

That's a plausible hypothesis, but what's the evidence? Could be that many people who get insurance are generally more risk averse than average.

My sense is that the biggest factor inducing aggressive and risky driving is overconfidence and associated desire to prove how could good a driver is. A remedy is to foster a degree of humility. It's easy for me to get back to that humility by reminding myself how much better good pro drivers are than me, and even they sometimes make mistakes and crash.

Veloce Raptor

Bottom line: people who are dicks are gonna be dicks on track. People who aren't, won't. Lap times will not change these facts.

yesyoucan

Just about every aggressive driver that I track with has track insurance. Those that don't, don't drive so aggressively.

Opentrack.com - annual track coverage doesn't discriminate between track organizers.

Lockton - rules out certain run groups (usually DE advance open passing with organizers that have a lot of crashes).

There is a few DE open advance passing groups that Lockton won't cover and others that they will. Primary reason is the number of incidents with those groups, and those groups have a lot of people with track insurance and through opentrack (since they will cover everyone)

I track with a lot of different groups and the most aggressive drivers are all the ones with track insurance and Lockton has made the correct assessment.

Check out their website for laguna seca and it will show all the events that are happening. They rule out race events and some specific organizer open passing groups but others they will still cover (doesn't have anything to do with transponders either because, one can still get a transponder for timing within that same organizer but lower run groups.

Manifold

From an insurer standpoint, I do find it odd that opentrack doesn't seem to have any underwriting process.

But I would still say that, even if there's a correlation between having insurance versus crash rate, correlation doesn't mean causation and having insurance may not be causing drivers to drive substantially more aggressively. For example, some drivers who want to drive aggressively may purchase insurance more often because it's available, but they might drive comparably aggressively with or without the insurance. In my case, I do have track insurance for every event (and car over $100K), but I don't think the insurance induces me to drive more aggressively, since I remain cognizant of the deductible, possibility of injury, etc.; the insurance provides financial peace of mind, but doesn't really change my overall risk perception since the safety risk eclipses concern about financial risk.

TXE36

Even with insurance, if you managed to damage or wreck a car it is going to cost more than zero as the deductibles are pretty high. For cars valued north of $20K, the premium cost is pretty substantial as well. It's also pretty much a one time use thing as well - insurance companies that stay in business are not stupid. Last time I did the calculations, if you manage to not total a car for three years and pocket otherwise spent premiums you can just self insure. YMMV.

Also, as cringe worthy as it is, I've heard a NASCAR and other series pro driver comment in person that he didn't really get good until he signed with a team where the own flatly stated (paraphrasing): "I want to win and I don't care if we have to shovel a car into the trailer a few times to get there." Not worrying about the car was key to his development. Of course, that level isn't what most of us are, but there is some validation of the theory under the right circumstances. HPDE or Club Racing would never be the right circumstance no matter who the driver is.

-Mike