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Old 05-28-2019, 01:48 PM
  #61  
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Originally Posted by bobt993 View Post
Further more on Gary's question. If you see a yellow flag do a service to those behind you to alert them as best as you can. (slow down predictably ). You could just as easily be the car behind and not able to see the flag come out as soon as the leading car should. DE is a great place to practice this.
You're right that this should be practiced in DE, and I'm really happy to mostly run with an organization that does flag drills. Could I have seen the flag sooner, in this particular instance? Yes, I could have. I'm partially responsible for sure. But the situation is this:
- I enter keyhole knowing there's a fast viper that'll be behind me quickly.
- I exit keyhole, see clear track, proceed to give him point by as I know he's going to blow by me after about a second (so he can see the point by)
- As my arm is out the window, I see the yellow.
- Maybe a second goes by and he's passed me with speed delta of ~40mph

So I could have seen the flag sooner and not give him the point by? Maybe, assuming that the second that I had between seeing clear track the first time and giving him point by was sufficient. Could I have waved him as my arm was still out the window to alert him to the flag? Yes, absolutely. Could he have seen the flag and slowed down enough to not pass me (remember the hp differential is like 400-500hp), maybe. He could have made a decision then that it was safer to pass than to slam on the brakes and unsettle the car in the kink. So both of us could potentially have done something to avoid the situation, but it still happened and it may have been unavoidable as to not create a dangerous situation for both of us. I can't say whether the other guy saw the flag and made a decision that it was safer to pass given his speed, or just not have seen the flag. With the chief instructor next to me on the check out ride he did not think that my contribution to the issue was sufficient to not check me off (and we did talk about what I could have been done differently, including waving, as you had suggested).
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Old 05-28-2019, 02:07 PM
  #62  
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Red face

This weekend in a big event at Lime Rock. I was qualifying and a black flag comes out at all stations. After I pass 3 stations with black flags this person ( trying to be nice) decides hes going to fly up the uphill and pass me before west bend under black flag all . (by the way I probably lapped him)Hmmm well for a second I went to shut down the pass then I realized this "person" (being nice again) wasn't slowing down.
When we line up in the pits I see he left good deal of space between him and the car in front so I pull out and slide in front of him. His hands are flying in a gesture like what the hell am I doing . We were even with chief steward so I get his attention and ask him to please inform the other driver what a black flag means .
He comes back to me and tells me the driver had No idea you cant pass under a black flag. WTF we are suppose to all be racers flags are 101?????? I tell him if he didn't know that maybe its a good idea to go back to him and tell him what a red flag means.

I am sorry but how do give race a license to people that don't even know the flags? this wasn't his first race either
I say all this not to make fun of the guy he might be a great guy . Its more about organizations have to do a better job educating and not promoting drivers or signing off on driver just for the sake of doing it.
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Old 05-28-2019, 04:58 PM
  #63  
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It can be difficult to memorize 6-8 flags.

Those bright colors are confusing to some.

Seriously, white flag full stop is someone that wasnt, and apparently hasnt been paying attention in class.
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Old 05-30-2019, 01:30 AM
  #64  
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Perhaps at drivers meetings we should have a flags poster up all the time beside the typical track map. Might be a nice subtle way to let everyone refresh every time.
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Old 05-30-2019, 02:32 AM
  #65  
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back in a past life, while going through pilot training in the air force we used to have something called "stand up" every morning. they called on students randomly with an emergency of the day. if you got called and didn't call out the proper emergency procedures, you sat that day and didn't fly. plus you got to look like a numpty in front of your buds. perhaps randomly calling on guys during the meeting to give the meaning of whichever flag the head of the meeting shows? if you miss it, you sit til lunch. give a little study time. also puts a little "pressure" on the person called on, if you can't remember with that pressure, you won't remember on the track.
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Old 05-30-2019, 02:38 AM
  #66  
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Originally Posted by ace37 View Post
Perhaps at drivers meetings we should have a flags poster up all the time beside the typical track map. Might be a nice subtle way to let everyone refresh every time.
Originally Posted by Bull_D View Post
back in a past life, while going through pilot training in the air force we used to have something called "stand up" every morning. they called on students randomly with an emergency of the day. if you got called and didn't call out the proper emergency procedures, you sat that day and didn't fly. plus you got to look like a numpty in front of your buds. perhaps randomly calling on guys during the meeting to give the meaning of whichever flag the head of the meeting shows? if you miss it, you sit til lunch. give a little study time. also puts a little "pressure" on the person called on, if you can't remember with that pressure, you won't remember on the track.

There are lots of great ideas that are not difficult to implement...but nothing will happen until HPDE organizers recognize there's an issue and start doing things to address it. By the sound of it, it would not appear there's awareness of the issue.
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Old 05-30-2019, 11:12 AM
  #67  
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Maybe instructors moving students up groups too quickly? Blue group students are the worst. Tunnel vision, no awareness, exceeding the limits of the car without being aware or capable of controlling it when they step over the line. Keep them back in C/Yellow, give them honest feedback and check their ego. What's scary is these guys are a couple events from asking to move up to Advance - so now they will be sharing a track with you for groups that split high/low HP.

To OP's - MOR has student reviews on clubregistration which should have been filled out. Was there any feedback on the student you received before going out with him? PCA should really get a standardized method of doing this. Always fun getting in the car with a blue student, no background info, first session of the day and you can pretty much smell the adrenaline when they get in the hot pit.
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Old 05-30-2019, 01:23 PM
  #68  
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Originally Posted by CrookedCommie View Post
Maybe instructors moving students up groups too quickly? Blue group students are the worst. Tunnel vision, no awareness, exceeding the limits of the car without being aware or capable of controlling it when they step over the line. Keep them back in C/Yellow, give them honest feedback and check their ego. What's scary is these guys are a couple events from asking to move up to Advance - so now they will be sharing a track with you for groups that split high/low HP.

To OP's - MOR has student reviews on clubregistration which should have been filled out. Was there any feedback on the student you received before going out with him? PCA should really get a standardized method of doing this. Always fun getting in the car with a blue student, no background info, first session of the day and you can pretty much smell the adrenaline when they get in the hot pit.
At FSR they use ascending order: Green, Blue, White (solo-int), Black (adv.), Red (Inst). FSR uses MotorsportReg for registration and SLIP for student reviews, so the instructor probably didn't know the student's "reviewed" background.
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Old 05-30-2019, 01:25 PM
  #69  
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Originally Posted by Bull_D View Post
back in a past life, while going through pilot training in the air force we used to have something called "stand up" every morning. they called on students randomly with an emergency of the day. if you got called and didn't call out the proper emergency procedures, you sat that day and didn't fly. plus you got to look like a numpty in front of your buds. perhaps randomly calling on guys during the meeting to give the meaning of whichever flag the head of the meeting shows? if you miss it, you sit til lunch. give a little study time. also puts a little "pressure" on the person called on, if you can't remember with that pressure, you won't remember on the track.
I like this.., as long as I'm not called
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Old 05-30-2019, 09:56 PM
  #70  
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Originally Posted by Bull_D View Post
back in a past life, while going through pilot training in the air force we used to have something called "stand up" every morning. they called on students randomly with an emergency of the day. if you got called and didn't call out the proper emergency procedures, you sat that day and didn't fly. plus you got to look like a numpty in front of your buds. perhaps randomly calling on guys during the meeting to give the meaning of whichever flag the head of the meeting shows? if you miss it, you sit til lunch. give a little study time. also puts a little "pressure" on the person called on, if you can't remember with that pressure, you won't remember on the track.
While I agree with this in principle, if you sit me for the morning because I miss a question in the drivers' meeting, I'd better see 1/4 of my registration fees come back to my credit card...
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Old 05-31-2019, 12:12 AM
  #71  
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Originally Posted by mgordon18 View Post
While I agree with this in principle, if you sit me for the morning because I miss a question in the drivers' meeting, I'd better see 1/4 of my registration fees come back to my credit card...
Should a college give you or your parents back part of your tuition if you scored low on an exam? Both are educational events, both are voluntary and most of us have had fun at both.
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Old 05-31-2019, 01:26 AM
  #72  
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Originally Posted by CCA View Post
Should a college give you or your parents back part of your tuition if you scored low on an exam? Both are educational events, both are voluntary and most of us have had fun at both.
That is a stretch, but I'll bite. If I don't know the answer to a one-question exam and the school suspends me for a month before letting me back in class, then yes - I would expect money back.
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Old 05-31-2019, 08:05 AM
  #73  
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Nonsense. Flag awareness is literally life and death.
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Old 05-31-2019, 08:11 AM
  #74  
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Originally Posted by Veloce Raptor View Post
Nonsense. Flag awareness is literally life and death.
+1
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Old 05-31-2019, 08:46 AM
  #75  
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Originally Posted by Veloce Raptor View Post
Nonsense. Flag awareness is literally life and death.
+2!
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