Rob in VA

Yup, ya'll are correct. On a few occasions I had to tell some drivers that group x wouldn't be a good group for them at this point, and why. I love being able to run and help Chin w/ their events.

LuigiVampa

+1

PCA club racing makes EVERYONE, including paid professional drivers, go through a rookie class. Why? Because there are differences in the way things are run that are important to know.

I'm bad with names but I had an IMSA driver in my rookie class and he didn't seemed offended by his inclusion at all.

I have never run with Chin but if they err on the side of caution, as opposed to letting a yahoo sneak through, that is a better way to run things. It can all be fixed with a checkout ride.

Veloce Raptor

Yes, this happens a lot. Pat Long and many others have attended their required PCA rookie meeting with big smiles!

alexaqui

Sounds like Chin makes sure you actually KNOW how to drive fast with other drivers of different skills/speeds on class versus what people who have never left the safety of their home region think is fast/safe. Not trying to dog on my PCA region, except the guys in red/black running on Hoosiers in their GT3s are slow as molasses when you look at the "junk" brung by the NASA guys. I love hearing guys brag about how their 500hp car can do x time at a track (on hoosiers) when the NASA guys racing old/ratty cars in GTSx are going way way faster.

Happy to start at the bottom of Chin and improve my skills. I'm thinking about the WGI event in the summer...

Manifold

Careful vetting and promotion of drivers is definitely important. When you're passing someone going up the esses at WG or VIR (it happens), you want to be confident that you can trust that they know what they're doing.

Texas RS

I just found this seriously entertaining post

"I told him to bag it, he would not get a lap in without traffic and risk damaging his car- supposedly they already have 50 cars in this group."

What race group has no traffic? From my experience there is far more car on car contact in amateur racing than in HPDE environment.... It seems someones ego is a little over-inflated.

Chin runs excellent events that are fast, fun and safe.

mglobe

There’s a lot of folks running other organizations that could learn a lot about how to run a good DE program by attending a Chin event. Thats not to say everything they do fits everyone’s program. But they truly run excellent events.

Honestly it baffles me how many folks involved with running DE programs never step out of their box and see what others are doing. PCA is not the be all end all. Nor is BMWCCA, HOD, TDE, NASA, ... or Chin.

Manifold

One thing that sets Chin apart is that they're the largest organizer of track events in the US. They've been around for 20 years, and looking at their 2019 calendar, they have 57 events at 15 tracks around the US, totaling 104 days on track. One small management team runs all of these events, and they do it as their full-time jobs, not as part-time volunteers. As a result, they have a depth of experience which IMO is unmatched by other DE organizations, and it shows in the quality of their events.

911therapy

Excellent points. Chin is first class and really well run. Super organized. I try run with them as much often as possible.

ohenryinatlanta

im always amazed at the number of high dollar rides $$$$$$ that show up at chin events

fatbillybob

On one hand Chin sounds great trying to protect its drivers. On the other hand Many who hold comp race licenses have paid their dues and if anything should understand safety and how to pass or get passed. I take a different approach on track regardless of who I run with. Chin vetting drivers on track works for them, if you like that sort of thing, but me personally...I don't trust anyone. I have been taken out by the best. I wonder if the stats for Chin driver crashes is statistically different from any of a dozen other HPDE trackday providers?

gbuff

You've been "taken out" at an HPDE/track day? Ummmm, it's a track day, not a race (to paraphrase A.Iverson ) Yes, anything's possible on a racetrack, but IMO if you're getting taken out at something other than a real race something's radically wrong unless the circumstances are really extraordinary.

Gary

fatbillybob

My post did not say that. I’m a licensed racer. My point is you never let your guard down once your visor goes down. No one is immune for a costly lapse in judgement. Hpde or racing physical laws of car on pavement is the same. Honestly racing with a group like Scca you got drivers with comp licenses, real tech inspections, high levels of car prep, medical care including acts on site, and even liability insurance as an additional insured. Hpde there is minimal to none of that. Cars have no cages yet speeds are triple digits in both. 200mph streetcars vs. 200mph full containment seat cage harness. Which is safer? Pick your poison. I race wheel to wheel because I’m a chicken.

Manifold

Am I recalling correctly that you haven’t done any DEs?

ProCoach

FBB, you’ve been around a long time, but the world is a BIG place.

There are many, MANY more drivers who attend and participate in NON-competitive track day and high-performance driver education events than race wheel tl
wheel.

The culture IS markedly different.

In responsible, practiced and polished track days and DE’s, the overriding goal in decision making is “if in doubt, DON’T,” and for about 99% of the time, that works.

In wheel to wheel racing, especially at the level you are competing, it’s “I’m going to MAKE something happen.” Depending on the weekend, the weather and the red mist present in the forecast, it doesn’t work out between 12%-24% of the time (according to my informal measure over three decades in SCCA, NASA, PCA CR, BMWCCA CR and historic racing), from scraped paint and loosened bumper covers to retubs being required.

It’s a mistake to confuse the culture and record of the two.

And there is a BIG difference in culture between track day providers and DE organizers, just like there is in racing organizations.

When I was a participant in pro racing, the series head SAID in the drivers meeting, “I want you to spice up the show, let’s show them some fireworks!” Sheesh...