Notices
Racing & Drivers Education Forum
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by:

What's up with Chin?

 
Old 04-29-2019, 09:53 PM
  #1  
montoya
Addict
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
 
montoya's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 3,106
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default What's up with Chin?

So this really happened. A friend of mine is a two time Runoff's champion, Super Tour national points winner in SCCA Spec Racer Class last year- the most popular SCCA class along with Spec Miata. He finds a Chin track day to warmup for this year's runoff's at VIR since he couldn't make the Super Tour race there. They ask for a resume of his driving- he doesn't like to brag, so he does a quick one. They ask for more info, he fills his resume out so more. They say come on down, you can run your Spec Racer in Novice Solo. WTH?? I could not imagine a more qualified driver short of Pro drivers. Would they put Randy Pobst in a Novice class? When he told me, I told him to bag it, he would not get a lap in without traffic and risk damaging his car- supposedly they already have 50 cars in this group.

Anyone here from Chin or knows how they make group determinations? Seems incredible that a National Champion must run Novice.
montoya is offline  
Old 04-29-2019, 10:02 PM
  #2  
Manifold
Super User
 
Manifold's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Close enough to plenty of good tracks
Posts: 4,346
Received 22 Likes on 11 Posts
Default

Probably a miscommunication, I've never seen an experienced driver like that placed in novice solo at a Chin event. An experienced driver like that would normally be placed in Blue and be scheduled for a Red checkout, or placed directly in Red. Part of the evaluation is to make sure the driver understands and has experience with the DE format as far as passing, etc. If someone skipped DE and went straight into racing, it could make sense to start in Blue (not novice solo) for at least a few sessions before moving to Red.
Manifold is offline  
Old 04-29-2019, 10:13 PM
  #3  
DTMiller
Addict
Rennlist Member
 
DTMiller's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Fading...
Posts: 3,123
Received 25 Likes on 20 Posts
Default

Which event? Pretty simple to get reclassed with Chin with an email to whoever the event manager is. Not the time to undersell your credentials.
DTMiller is offline  
Old 04-29-2019, 10:42 PM
  #4  
montoya
Addict
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
 
montoya's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 3,106
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default

Originally Posted by Manifold View Post
Probably a miscommunication, I've never seen an experienced driver like that placed in novice solo at a Chin event. An experienced driver like that would normally be placed in Blue and be scheduled for a Red checkout, or placed directly in Red. Part of the evaluation is to make sure the driver understands and has experience with the DE format as far as passing, etc. If someone skipped DE and went straight into racing, it could make sense to start in Blue (not novice solo) for at least a few sessions before moving to Red.
No, it doesn’t make sense- are you saying Lewis Hamilton needs a checkout or must run Blue because he hasn’t run a DE trackday? Yes he has never run a trackday, he’s been racing for 30 years. But really we are talking Novice solo!

Originally Posted by DTMiller View Post
Which event? Pretty simple to get reclassed with Chin with an email to whoever the event manager is. Not the time to undersell your credentials.
When you put on your resume SCCA National Champion twice - once in the most pure spec class almost all driver skill, and recently in 2016 you don’t need to say much more. But supposedly this was the event manager he was emailing. It was one in June, but he’s not going now.
montoya is offline  
Old 04-29-2019, 10:44 PM
  #5  
Thundermoose
User
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 818
Received 10 Likes on 8 Posts
Default

I had something similar happen to me when I went to Road Atlanta for the first time. I had run Advanced Solo at my Texas tracks with them but they put me in Novice Solo. I had a couple of Chin Instructors vouch for me, but they still placed me in novice solo. Keep in mind at this point, I have 5 track records with NASA in 3 states. But I hadn't updated my resume. I was able to finally convince them after the all yellow session to bump me up a group but they said no shenanigans.

I run with them again at Mid Ohio and they have me in intermediate solo, I supposed since I haven't driven that track before.

They told me they'd rather see me learn the track from my front window then looking in my rear mirror. Makes sense.
Thundermoose is offline  
Old 04-29-2019, 10:57 PM
  #6  
montoya
Addict
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
 
montoya's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 3,106
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default

Originally Posted by Thundermoose View Post
I had something similar happen to me when I went to Road Atlanta for the first time. I had run Advanced Solo at my Texas tracks with them but they put me in Novice Solo. I had a couple of Chin Instructors vouch for me, but they still placed me in novice solo. Keep in mind at this point, I have 5 track records with NASA in 3 states. But I hadn't updated my resume. I was able to finally convince them after the all yellow session to bump me up a group but they said no shenanigans.

I run with them again at Mid Ohio and they have me in intermediate solo, I supposed since I haven't driven that track before.

They told me they'd rather see me learn the track from my front window then looking in my rear mirror. Makes sense.
He has run there before in a pro series but a long time ago, maybe that is the convoluted logic. Traveling across the country for a checkout ride just doesnít make sense.
montoya is offline  
Old 04-29-2019, 11:02 PM
  #7  
DTMiller
Addict
Rennlist Member
 
DTMiller's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Fading...
Posts: 3,123
Received 25 Likes on 20 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by montoya View Post
He has run there before in a pro series but a long time ago, maybe that is the convoluted logic. Traveling across the country for a checkout ride just doesnít make sense.
Chin's policy is pretty much everyone gets a check out ride and usually it's the first opportunity of the day. It's one of the reasons people like running with them, people can't self select although I think that someone of your friend's caliber should have been given some significant leeway.

Novice solo would not be a good fit for him unless he's driving something that runs on 4 D batteries. And maybe not then. Sorry to hear he has decided to cancel, I think if he did attend he would find it would have worked itself out very quickly.
DTMiller is offline  
Old 04-29-2019, 11:04 PM
  #8  
Manifold
Super User
 
Manifold's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Close enough to plenty of good tracks
Posts: 4,346
Received 22 Likes on 11 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by montoya View Post
No, it doesn’t make sense- are you saying Lewis Hamilton needs a checkout or must run Blue because he hasn’t run a DE trackday? Yes he has never run a trackday, he’s been racing for 30 years. But really we are talking Novice solo!
I once did a checkout for novice solo for a guy at VIR at a Chin event. He was an older guy who had done lots of kart racing at VIR, and wanted to track his street car. When we got on track it was clear that he didn't understand how DEs work. I opined that the driver should have an instructor work with him in the novice group; the driver said ok, and later thanked me sincerely for pairing him with an instructor.

It's usually better for all concerned to start someone in a conservative placement and move them up if/when they're ready.

At my first Chin event, I was already an instructor with another organization, was placed in Blue, and had to do a checkout to move to Red.
Manifold is offline  
Old 04-29-2019, 11:14 PM
  #9  
ProCoach
Rennlist Member
Rennlist
Small Business Partner

 
ProCoach's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Durham, NC and Virginia International Raceway
Posts: 12,626
Received 46 Likes on 36 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by DTMiller View Post
Chin's policy is pretty much everyone gets a check out ride and usually it's the first opportunity of the day. It's one of the reasons people like running with them, people can't self select although I think that someone of your friend's caliber should have been given some significant leeway.

Novice solo would not be a good fit for him unless he's driving something that runs on 4 D batteries. And maybe not then. Sorry to hear he has decided to cancel, I think if he did attend he would find it would have worked itself out very quickly.
^^This^^
__________________
-Peter Krause
www.peterkrause.net
"Combining the Art and Science of Driving Fast!"
Professional, Private Driver Performance Analysis
Authorized Sales and Support for AiM Sports, VBOX Video, MoTeC, AutoSport Labs, RaceVoice LLC, Apex Pro and Cosworth Electronics
ProCoach is offline  
Old 04-29-2019, 11:34 PM
  #10  
mglobe
The Penguin King
Rennlist Member
 
mglobe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Houston
Posts: 9,524
Received 4 Likes on 3 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by DTMiller View Post
Chin's policy is pretty much everyone gets a check out ride and usually it's the first opportunity of the day. It's one of the reasons people like running with them, people can't self select although I think that someone of your friend's caliber should have been given some significant leeway.

Novice solo would not be a good fit for him unless he's driving something that runs on 4 D batteries. And maybe not then. Sorry to hear he has decided to cancel, I think if he did attend he would find it would have worked itself out very quickly.
Exactly right. And Iíll add that unless youíve been chief, cook, and bottle washer for a DE program you can hardly imagine the misrepresentations that you get from some people when they present themselves. You have to err on the side of caution with unknown drivers.
mglobe is offline  
Old 04-29-2019, 11:34 PM
  #11  
montoya
Addict
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
 
montoya's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 3,106
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default

Originally Posted by DTMiller View Post
Chin's policy is pretty much everyone gets a check out ride and usually it's the first opportunity of the day. It's one of the reasons people like running with them, people can't self select although I think that someone of your friend's caliber should have been given some significant leeway.

Novice solo would not be a good fit for him unless he's driving something that runs on 4 D batteries. And maybe not then. Sorry to hear he has decided to cancel, I think if he did attend he would find it would have worked itself out very quickly.
Well I have no experience with Chin, but based on other DE organizations I figured chances were slim to Ďfigure it outí the day of. Usually people wonít back down from their prior decisions. Too risky to hope this works out after a 3000 mile tow.

Originally Posted by Manifold View Post
I once did a checkout for novice solo for a guy at VIR at a Chin event. He was an older guy who had done lots of kart racing at VIR, and wanted to track his street car. When we got on track it was clear that he didn't understand how DEs work. I opined that the driver should have an instructor work with him in the novice group; the driver said ok, and later thanked me sincerely for pairing him with an instructor.

It's usually better for all concerned to start someone in a conservative placement and move them up if/when they're ready.

At my first Chin event, I was already an instructor with another organization, was placed in Blue, and had to do a checkout to move to Red.
Well Iím not going to convince you this is ridiculous... seriously he is not old- 45, and doesnít need an instructor. Heís the nicest guy and not aggressive, would follow any rules given. A DE isnít a difficult event for someone who has thousands of hours racing. And you were placed in blue, not novice solo in a similar circumstance.
montoya is offline  
Old 04-29-2019, 11:42 PM
  #12  
montoya
Addict
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
 
montoya's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 3,106
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default

Originally Posted by ProCoach View Post
^^This^^
Originally Posted by mglobe View Post
Exactly right. And Iíll add that unless youíve been chief, cook, and bottle washer for a DE program you can hardly imagine the misrepresentations that you get from some people when they present themselves. You have to err on the side of caution with unknown drivers.
Unknown ? You can see his national championship races on the SCCA website.

Does Randy Pobst need a checkout ride? Itís seriously the same thing- but he is fine with that, has no ego itís just that he is starting in Novice solo- chances to run in the expert group that same day are not good at most DE organizations, but I donít know Chin.
montoya is offline  
Old 04-29-2019, 11:45 PM
  #13  
TXE36
Super User
 
TXE36's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: TX
Posts: 2,381
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default

^^^ Exactly my thoughts as well ^^^

Sometimes they can be a bit cautious, but they have no interest in holding somebody back. A few minutes of observation would have made his skills obvious and the problem would be solved.

-Mike
TXE36 is offline  
Old 04-29-2019, 11:51 PM
  #14  
montoya
Addict
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
 
montoya's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 3,106
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default

Originally Posted by TXE36 View Post
^^^ Exactly my thoughts as well ^^^

Sometimes they can be a bit cautious, but they have no interest in holding somebody back. A few minutes of observation would have made his skills obvious and the problem would be solved.

-Mike
I told him I could probably network here and get it resolved ahead of time, but his tow plans changed for the June Sprints so the risk wasnít worth it. I just posted here to understand the reasoning. I guess I understand a little better but still a little dumbfounded on the choice to put him in Novice Solo.
montoya is offline  
Old 04-30-2019, 01:51 AM
  #15  
tcsracing1
Addict
Rennlist Member
 
tcsracing1's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Somewhere in a galaxy far, far away....
Posts: 16,365
Likes: 0
Received 6 Likes on 5 Posts
Default

I did my first chin day in 2016 prior to a GT4 Clubsport race.
I ran in blue group until the moved me up after lunch.

Best thing would be to get there and then get moved up.
tcsracing1 is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - About Us - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

© 2019 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands

We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
 
  • Ask a Question
    Get answers from community experts
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: